French winawer poisoned pawn 12.h4

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Avatar of emchel

Hello,
I was looking at the mainline winawer and found out that this move 12.h4 seems pretty strong. It’s not a new move or anything, but to me it seems as good as the mainline 12.Qd3.


This kinda thing seems dangerous.

Avatar of rpkgs

I think the reason it is not played that much is after Bd7 and queenside castle, black can start applying pressure to the pawn, and due to whites lack of development, it is hard for him to defend it. 

Avatar of emchel

Ok, but how exactly. It seems hard to win the pawn, if you go Rg6 followed by Rh8, white just continues pushing the pawn to h7.

Avatar of Toviya

From what I’ve read the h4 plan is a trendy, dangerous variation.

Avatar of rpkgs
emchel wrote:

Ok, but how exactly. It seems hard to win the pawn, if you go Rg6 followed by Rh8, white just continues pushing the pawn to h7.

I was thinking something like this.

 

Avatar of emchel
Mr_Winawer wrote:
emchel wrote:

Ok, but how exactly. It seems hard to win the pawn, if you go Rg6 followed by Rh8, white just continues pushing the pawn to h7.

I was thinking something like this.

 

White should back away his queen to d3 once black castles to avoid this

White's pawns on the queenside are going to be very strong

Avatar of Deranged

h4 seems really double edged, because black can play ...Nf5 to trap the white queen into that small quadrant of the board.

Edit: it seems this issue has already been addressed by moving the queen back to d3 before ...Nf5 is possible.

But doesn't that then just transpose into the Qd3 lines?

Avatar of rpkgs

What about 15...d4, gives great counterplay  in the center

Avatar of emchel
Mr_Winawer wrote:

What about 15...d4, gives great counterplay  in the center

Then Rg1 followed by g4

Avatar of rpkgs
emchel wrote:
Mr_Winawer wrote:

What about 15...d4, gives great counterplay  in the center

Then Rg1 followed by g4




Avatar of ThrillerFan
emchel wrote:
Mr_Winawer wrote:

What about 15...d4, gives great counterplay  in the center

Then Rg1 followed by g4

 

That idea often fails for White.  Take the following correspondence game that I played as an example on ICCF:

 

Notice that Black just flat out gives up the Knight.  The real blunder was 22.fxe5, after which White is lost.  It is theoretically drawn until then.

Avatar of jatait47
ThrillerFan wrote:

Notice that Black just flat out gives up the Knight.  The real blunder was 22.fxe5, after which White is lost.  It is theoretically drawn until then.

 

20 Qc4 is also a mistake. After 20 Rb5! White is clearly better. In fact John Watson writes that "This may well be a refutation of the whole line!" By which he means ...Nf5, ...d5-d4 and ...f7-f6. Black does better to leave the e7-knight where it is and push ...d5-d4 as a sacrifice.