getting tired of french. suggestions?

BusyNight

im getting tired of the french defence and the very symmetrical structures. what would you guys suggest for me to try out? im considering the e6 sicilian. this is  the french if any question

BusyNight

i mentioned e6 sicilian because i like playing with a e6d5 structure thats why the french is not for me

BusyNight

just got a game in the french after i posted this. obviously he instantly played 3.exd5 then follows with 4.Qe2. chess.com database has 9 games in that position in which 7 was a draw and after the most popular answer Qe7 every game is a dead draw. only in the exchange variation

poucin

https://www.chess.com/video/player/why-simon-loves-the-french-the-exchange-aka-the-groan-variation

kindaspongey
BusyNight wrote:

... im considering the e6 sicilian. ...

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7407.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7671.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7602.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7623.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9004.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7500.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7070.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7825.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7819.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9068.pdf

Zeitnot17

... and now for something completely different

FrogCDE

"he instantly played 3.exd5 then follows with 4.Qe2". You can hardly complain. surely? White has given up his initiative and now stands slightly worse after 4...Be7. (I've no idea why you would play Qe7 unless you actually want a draw.) Not many openings where you can say that after 4 moves.

respecthebish1

Scandi

ThrillerFan

The OP says and I quote:

"it is possible for white to not capture on d5 on move 3 but he will in almost all games to such a degree its not worth looking at other moves"

Almost all games?  Clearly you haven't played the French for very long or are only playing against patzers.  I have played the French over the board for over 20 years.  Probably a good 500+ games.  I get the Exchange Variation maybe once, twice at most, per year in roughly 25 or so games a year where I am on the Black side of the French Defense.  I play about 100 to 120 games per year, but of course, half of those are going to be White, and then the times I don't face 1.e4 or the rare occurrences that I play something else like the Petroff, but still, 20 to 25 games a year where I'm on the Black side of the French Defense and I can't remotely think of a single year I have faced the Exchange more than twice!

 

The French is not a highly symmetrical defense.  Occasionally?  Yes.  Same can be said for almost any opening.  Take the Exchange King's Indian, for example.  But what the OP says is completely wrong!

my137thaccount
ThrillerFan wrote:

The OP says and I quote:

"it is possible for white to not capture on d5 on move 3 but he will in almost all games to such a degree its not worth looking at other moves"

Almost all games?  Clearly you haven't played the French for very long or are only playing against patzers.  I have played the French over the board for over 20 years.  Probably a good 500+ games.  I get the Exchange Variation maybe once, twice at most, per year in roughly 25 or so games a year where I am on the Black side of the French Defense.  I play about 100 to 120 games per year, but of course, half of those are going to be White, and then the times I don't face 1.e4 or the rare occurrences that I play something else like the Petroff, but still, 20 to 25 games a year where I'm on the Black side of the French Defense and I can't remotely think of a single year I have faced the Exchange more than twice!

 

The French is not a highly symmetrical defense.  Occasionally?  Yes.  Same can be said for almost any opening.  Take the Exchange King's Indian, for example.  But what the OP says is completely wrong!

I play at the OP's level and get the Exchange Variation 60% of the time, the Advance Variation 30% of the time and other stuff including 3.Nc3 10% of the time (one player with a 2000 FIDE rating played 3.Bd3 against me and reached a terrible position).

OldPatzerMike

@ThrillerFan: You play at a higher level than the OP and me. You are much more likely to face opponents who play mainline variations against the French. I just took up the French last year, and in the 8 times I've gotten to play it I've faced the exchange 4 times and the advance 4 times. Nobody at my level seems to play 3. Nc3 or even 3. Nd2. Earlier in your career, most of your opponents probably did play main lines, but these days it seems that most people at lower levels want to play "safe" openings as White.

@BusyNight: I urge you to embrace the Exchange Variation. White gives up any hope of an opening advantage, while solving Black's eternal problem in the French: the hemmed in QB. There are lots of ways to create tension in the position. Take a look at games that Uhlmann and Korchnoi played against the exchange to get some great ideas. Especially interesting is a 1955 game where Tal played the exchange against Korchnoi and almost got slaughtered. It ended in a draw, but not at all a boring one.

BusyNight
FrogCDE wrote:

"he instantly played 3.exd5 then follows with 4.Qe2". You can hardly complain. surely? White has given up his initiative and now stands slightly worse after 4...Be7. (I've no idea why you would play Qe7 unless you actually want a draw.) Not many openings where you can say that after 4 moves.

i didnt play Qe7 just mentioning that it is the preferred move by masters happy.png in 2015 Fries Nielsen vs Hoi C played 4...Be7 and white was prepared with 5.Bg5 to remove both players bishoppair and drew easily that way and a draw was agreed 5 moves later and thats the last of it in chessdotcom database. outside of that 4.Qe2 has a 89% drawchance in the database which ridiculous

BusyNight
OldPatzerMike wrote:

@ThrillerFan: You play at a higher level than the OP and me. You are much more likely to face opponents who play mainline variations against the French. I just took up the French last year, and in the 8 times I've gotten to play it I've faced the exchange 4 times and the advance 4 times. Nobody at my level seems to play 3. Nc3 or even 3. Nd2. Earlier in your career, most of your opponents probably did play main lines, but these days it seems that most people at lower levels want to play "safe" openings as White.

@BusyNight: I urge you to embrace the Exchange Variation. White gives up any hope of an opening advantage, while solving Black's eternal problem in the French: the hemmed in QB. There are lots of ways to create tension in the position. Take a look at games that Uhlmann and Korchnoi played against the exchange to get some great ideas. Especially interesting is a 1955 game where Tal played the exchange against Korchnoi and almost got slaughtered. It ended in a draw, but not at all a boring one.

actually most my opponents in blitz chessdotcom is around 1800-2000 which is around thrillerfan.  dont take my dailychess rating to seriously as i have 0 losses happy.png  actually dont take my blitzrating seriously ether since i have connectionproblem and disconnect literally in every game and lose a minute. there is 2 modems in this house with same ip that mess everything up i think. yeah i started the french myself this januar but with popular books like "a simple repertoire for white" and videos on youtube and even the frenchgod john watson himself recommending the french exchange on ICC you can tell it has become more popular. most noticable online but i see more and more in club

BusyNight
OldPatzerMike wrote:

@BusyNight: Especially interesting is a 1955 game where Tal played the exchange against Korchnoi and almost got slaughtered. It ended in a draw, but not at all a boring one

ah yeah thats a famous game. Korchnoi had a huge +score against Tal +9 so Tal wanted to get a draw so he chose the exchange variation. he then sacced a rook to pretty much force a draw as white. He has later said it was the only game in his entire life he played for a draw as white

BusyNight
ThrillerFan wrote:

The French is not a highly symmetrical defense.  Occasionally?  Yes.  Same can be said for almost any opening.  Take the Exchange King's Indian, for example.  But what the OP says is completely wrong!

yeah but in the exchange kings indian white has given up the d4 square since the pawn is already on c4 so black can try to use it. of course white have compensation for this in development and more space but its an unbalanced and interestning position where black and white have different plans

elky_plays_chess

Take your pick https://www.chessable.com/opening-book/im-john-bartholomews-scandinavian/79/

BusyNight

thx trying out the sicilian for now happy.png

FrogCDE

@BusyNight, a lot of people think symmetrical pawns = dead draw, and maybe if you're a GM that's true. But in the variation you give,  after 5...Nc6 6.Bxe7 Ngxe7, Black has a slight lead in development, White's queen is badly placed and it looks likely that the two players will castle on opposite sides, unbalancing the position. My ChessBase gives 4.Qe2 as 33% for White, which is pretty poor. 

BusyNight

that is actually pretty close to what was played in the game i talked about but different moveorder

the two masters agreed to a draw since its so symmetrical i guess. i would have tried to play on but not sure what to play for here.  i think if you work on such positions at home you can find some tricks but i prefer more unbalanced positions. i dont have chessbase but i suspect the 33% for whiteafter 4.Qe2 is so low because there is alot of draw?

Ziggy_Zugzwang

Well the thing is after 1e4 e6 2d4 d5 3ed ed, a pawn each side has been exchanged, the king file is open and the rest of the pieces are in their starting position. The board one for our first team regularly beats lower graded players who try it against his French Defence and when he plays people of the same or higher grade, they play French mainlines.

I think the real argument from the perspective of the players, against the French Exchange is that it disallows their stereotypical play.