GM Negi's 1.e4 books appropriate for class players?

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Avatar of Suvorov84

I've read a lot of good things about GM Negi's 1.e4 repertoire books, but as it's from Quality Chess' Grandmaster Repertoire series, I'm a bit hesitant on buying it.  I loved Marin's 1...e5 series from QC, but I know that QC aims the GM series at higher rated players, and as a 1600 player OTB, I'm not sure if I would get much out of it.  So for those who own it, is it worth a buy? (and please don't go off topic and say that I shouldnt use opening books at my level.  I review most of my games and do tactics daily).

Avatar of AyoDub

I think how much use of it you get will depend broadly on two points.

Most importantly, as it seems you're aware, the QC series annontations generally don't spend much time explaining the plans each side aim to follow. What this means is that I feel you MUST have a decent amount fo experience within the opening complexes that are examined (not necessarily the precise variations).If you've never played the Nc3 french before, maybe you want to clock some hours getting  feel for it before resorting to a highly theoretical work.

The second important point, which is related to the first, is how you generally like to learn from your opening books. Books from quality chess , I find are very useful if you go to them after your games to find where you, or your opponent deviated, and slowly accumulating knowledge of the theory. However, if you like to read books cover to cover in a short amount of time to get an overall feel for the positions you play, its probably best to go with a book that has more explaination, and is in full game format (Most QC books are tree format).

Avatar of SmyslovFan

I'd guess that at 1600 strength, you could get quite a bit of value from Negi's book. I'd recommend using it as a reference book for the most part, and other books to improve. 

Avatar of pfren

I'd rather say to leave it alone. Granted, it's a superb book, but variation-heavy, and dedicating a lot of space into fine details, which are irrelevant to class players.

One of the common mistakes made with such content is making it a gospel (this is quite common with class players). The challenge for advanced players is finding analytical holes (they are always there, no matter how good the author is) and try repairing them. So far, I have found three holes at the French analysis (had no time to scrutinize the Caro and Philidor content), and I expect to find more. All three of those mistakes are too subtle for a class player to grasp, and revealing them requires quite some time, and proper silicon assistance (it's no secret that the vast majority of class players have no clue on how to use their silicon assistant properly).

Avatar of Suvorov84

Thanks for the replies.  I generally use opening books like Godlike mentioned above (i.e., using them them as a reference for when I or my opponent deviate in a game, or looking at relevant games in that variation), and that was my intended use for Negi's book.  However, I think i'll look for other options for now.  So far, I've just been reading through Watson's Mastering the Chess Openings and Paul van der Sterren's FCO for studying 1.e4, so I'll probably just stick with those (especially since there seems to be a dearth of 1.e4 repertoire books that recommend main lines).

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie
pfren wrote:

I'd rather say to leave it alone. Granted, it's a superb book, but variation-heavy, and dedicating a lot of space into fine details, which are irrelevant to class players.

One of the common mistakes made with such content is making it a gospel (this is quite common with class players). The challenge for advanced players is finding analytical holes (they are always there, no matter how good the author is) and try repairing them. So far, I have found three holes at the French analysis (had no time to scrutinize the Caro and Philidor content), and I expect to find more. All three of those mistakes are too subtle for a class player to grasp, and revealing them requires quite some time, and proper silicon assistance (it's no secret that the vast majority of class players have no clue on how to use their silicon assistant properly).

 

 

When writing the books though didn't they use the latest hardware and engines?  I've found some holes in the Marin book on Beating the Open Games but in one of the games not the theory part. The permutations in chess are just so numerous that one can't conceivably cover all lines. 

 

Why would fine details be irrelevant?  One line could lead to complete equality whereas another would have a longterm positional advantage that could dwell well into the endgame or be converted into another advantage.  Why let someone have easy equality just because they're 1600 instead of 2600?

 

Then of course authors very likely hoard the good stuff for their own games for preparation. If something is specific for beating Kramnik or whatever titled player then of course that aspect wouldn't be useful to the class player. 

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie
chessmicky wrote:

My experience is that you lose an awful lot of the value of a book when you read it "too soon." We not only don't get the full values of the material when it's too advanced for us, by the time we're really ready for the more advanced material, that same material won't be fresh and exciting for us because we've already read it

That's why I do GM Prep: Calculation and San Luis 2005 quite sparingly.  What you wrote applies to workbooks especially since some of the positions could spoil before you're ready for them. 

I'd still say get the book just in case but have a foundational understanding first so you could understand why certain moves are within the spirit of the opening. 

Avatar of zeitnotakrobat

Imho forget about that book. When I was playing lower leagues I never had more than 10 moves in any opening mainline. After leaving theory you have to play based common sense and calculation. Doing training on that will give you more benefit than learning opening lines.

Therefore I would recommend you to go through well annotated games in the openings you want to play, learn general plans, look at the pawn structures and the most common endgames that result.

Avatar of pfren
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

Why would fine details be irrelevant?  One line could lead to complete equality whereas another would have a longterm positional advantage that could dwell well into the endgame or be converted into another advantage.  Why let someone have easy equality just because they're 1600 instead of 2600?

Then of course authors very likely hoard the good stuff for their own games for preparation. If something is specific for beating Kramnik or whatever titled player then of course that aspect wouldn't be useful to the class player. 

Because chances to meet them are one in a thousand- and even if you meet them OTB, the game won't be decided by them. Still, if you have plenty of time to kill, then feel free studying them.

For the record, Negi is not hiding stuff in his book.

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

What's the best place for one to find well-annotated games on the openings in which one is interested? That does sound like a good way to learn...

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie

Speaking of finding corrections in books I've done so (with Stockfish's help) but it was within the context of helping another player to understand the opening he thought he played:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/changing-opening-repertoire

Obviously he thought the opponent was going for a Mieses and responded accordingly (moving too fast even for an opening stage), but when Bd3 was played instead of 6.e5 the move became awkward.  He was supposed to play 6...d5! 7.e5,Ng4 8.0-0,Bc5 and play would have continued 9.Bf4,g5 10.Bd2,Qe7 11.Bc3,d4 12.Bd2,Nxe5 13.Re1,0-0 14.h4 (14.Qe2?!,Nxd3! with a slight advantage to black) ...g4 with an unclear game with chances for both sides.   

"For the record, Negi is not hiding stuff in his book."

Even so you can't blame him if he did.  Authoring a book shouldn't be the cause of anyone's defeat for revealing too much about their own preperation. 

Avatar of TheGreatOogieBoogie
Chicken_Monster wrote:

What's the best place for one to find well-annotated games on the openings in which one is interested? That does sound like a good way to learn...

Tournament books or player books.  Alekhine's books and Zurich 1953 were written long ago so much of the opening analysis is dated but something like San Luis 2005 or Reggio Emilia 2008 might be good.  Also find a player whose openings you like and buy one of their game collections, such as Karpov's Best Games from Edition Olms. 

Avatar of casual_chess_yo

extremely inappopriate and uncalled for, reported

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

There is also a series of Anand opening books. I don't know of their reputation.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Opening for White According to Anand (OFWAA) by Khalifman is absolute gold! But those books are denser than ECO and far more detailed. I would not recommend them to anyone except a competitive tournament player, an avid correspondence player, or a book collector. They're fantastic, but they're written for chess players rated +2000 by USCF or FIDE, perhaps even higher!

Avatar of Chicken_Monster
SmyslovFan wrote:

Opening for White According to Anand (OFWAA) by Khalifman is absolute gold! But those books are denser than ECO and far more detailed. I would not recommend them to anyone except a competitive tournament player, an avid correspondence player, or a book collector. They're fantastic, but they're written for chess players rated +2000 by USCF or FIDE, perhaps even higher!

Just out of curiosity, what is your favorite counterpart for Black? 

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Not quite sure what you mean. 

If you mean favorite opening books, it depends entirely on what purpose I use them for. For training purposes, I don't use opening books much. For reference purposes, it depends entirely on which openings I'm studying at the time. Khalifman is a fantastic author and Quality Chess has been cranking out brilliant tomes for advanced players for several years now. I wouldn't recommend either the GM Repertoire books or Khalifman to anyone under 2000 strength unless they were avid correspondence players or book collectors tho.

One of my all-time favorite opening books is The Chigorin Defense According to Morozevich. That book is accesible to a wide range of players, and was truly eye-opening in terms of what is possible in chess. It's a great book! The opening itself is suspect, but the book is amazing.

Avatar of Chicken_Monster
SmyslovFan wrote:

Not quite sure what you mean. 

If you mean favorite opening books, it depends entirely on what purpose I use them for. For training purposes, I don't use opening books much. For reference purposes, it depends entirely on which openings I'm studying at the time. Khalifman is a fantastic author and Quality Chess has been cranking out brilliant tomes for advanced players for several years now. I wouldn't recommend either the GM Repertoire books or Khalifman to anyone under 2000 strength unless they were avid correspondence players or book collectors tho.

One of my all-time favorite opening books is The Chigorin Defense According to Morozevich. That book is accesible to a wide range of players, and was truly eye-opening in terms of what is possible in chess. It's a great book! The opening itself is suspect, but the book is amazing.

What I meant is what do you consider to be the best (in your opinion) opening book or series of books for playing Black for players at very high levels (2000+). Black and also White.

Same question, but now for something accessible to intermediate players as well. Black and also White.

Avatar of Chicken_Monster

I am primarilty thining of repertoire books..but interested in what else you like for other opening purposes.

Avatar of pfren

One recent "repertoire" work which I can very warmly recommend even to players below master class is the Tall Man's (P.H. Nielsen) DVD's on the Sicilian Dragon: While accessible to most players, and quite descriptive, they do have a lot of essential details and interesting ideas. Unfortunately, most of the DVD material available right now is either of a lower standard, or downright bad.