Handling weak openings

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TiagoDevesa

Well I think that any decent player knows that some openings are weak, (the a-4 \ the h-4 \ the f3 \ etc.)

My question is, how to make the most of your opponent's mistake? What do you play against this kind of weird first (and sometimes second \ third) moves? I usually go for the e-4\e-5 and d-4\d-5

dmeng

Against a4, I would normally play e5. If the player is a beginner, then you've got Bxa3 if Ra3. If the player is actually really good, then you're playing as if it were any other opening (He could simply be "giving the move" to you.)

Against h4, I would normally play d5. Again, Bxh3 if Rh3 against beginners, and you're getting a good pawn center if the player is really good.

Be wary against a4 and h4 though. As bad as they are, a high-level player can still get an attack going quickly on that side of the board if you aren't careful.

Against f3, I'd go with e5. Obviously you're threatening Fool's Mate, but even without that threat, the potential along the e1-h4 diagonal is promising.

Anything else isn't an immediate mistake if you're opponent knows what he/she is doing. Just try to play normally and look for other weaknesses in the position as the game goes on. If that beginner continues to make similar positional mistakes, be ready to pounce on them, and don't be afraid to sacrifice a pawn or two to nab key squares and diagonals.

Last year I played someone who made similar icky choices the first 5 moves or so. I waited until I had my pieces going and offered a "poisoned pawn" to nab the e1-h4 diagonal on move 9. The beginner fell for it, and the game was more or less over at that point, all he had was interpositions for the last 3 moves. If you keep an eye on the position when your opponent makes similar positional atrocities, you'll get the same kind of results.

TiagoDevesa

Whats a poisoned pawn? I've heard of such term but never looked into it

rush40

pawn you shouldn't take but can take though it is risky

heres an example position

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoned_Pawn_Variation

rush40

yes just get a large center vs a5 h5 moves the game should be easy

dmeng

I don't necessarily share rush40's optimism. If you get too complacent against these kinds of openings, you can still lose the game if your opponent gets an attack going.

TiagoDevesa

Nf3 is not weak!

TiagoDevesa

I belive that e 4 and d4 are equally strong as the c4 and Nf3

chaos_

explain guys just don't say this is weaker than this.

wormstar

the correct answer is to develop fast, like in any other opening. no 'weak' opening gives up much more than one tempo, so if you don't use that tempo to get ahead in development, the opponent lost absolutely nothing. possibly he even gained space or started an attack. if your understanding of openings is bad he probably even threw you out of book just like that.

dmeng

rich wrote:

The Trompowsky is strong.


Dude, read before you post. We're discussing how to handle weak openings. We know the Trompowsky is a good opening, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

dmeng

rich wrote:

Nf3 is quite weaker, well it's weaker than d4 and e4.


Oh, and Nf3 is a lot stronger than you think. It just isn't as common.

bobobbob

Nc3 is unusual but good too.

dmeng

rich wrote:

Nah there a few openings that are better than Nf3.


"Better" would really be a matter of opinion or style here. The first moves 1. c4, 1. d4, 1. e4 and 1. Nf3 are all perfectly good moves to start out a game, provided you know what you're doing. Of the four, there really isn't any one that is better or worse than the other 3.

(As an added note, most games that start with 1. Nf3 transpose into 1. d4 games. So, if you say 1. Nf3 is weak, then you're saying 1. d4 is mostly weak as well.)

dmeng

rich wrote:

I don't like using Knights first move that's why.


I don't think anyone sees what's so bad about moving that knight on your first move. If grandmasters are willing to play 1. Nf3 in major tournaments, then it's definitely better than you think.

chaos_

nf3 is going to transpose into queen pawns game anyways most likey

dmeng

chaos_ wrote:

nf3 is going to transpose into queen pawns game anyways most likey


I said that earlier...

dmeng

rich wrote:

dmeng wrote:

rich wrote:

Nah there a few openings that are better than Nf3.


"Better" would really be a matter of opinion or style here. The first moves 1. c4, 1. d4, 1. e4 and 1. Nf3 are all perfectly good moves to start out a game, provided you know what you're doing. Of the four, there really isn't any one that is better or worse than the other 3.

(As an added note, most games that start with 1. Nf3 transpose into 1. d4 games. So, if you say 1. Nf3 is weak, then you're saying 1. d4 is mostly weak as well.)


 No, d4 is very strong I play it often, I use the Queens gambit, and the Trompowsky attack.


I know d4 is strong. What I'm saying is that you can't bash 1. Nf3 without bashing 1. d4.

dmeng

rich wrote:

You don't understand, d4 doesn't have that much to do with Nf3.


Dude, two of us have already said that 1. Nf3 openings typically transpose into 1. d4 openings. In other words, I beg to differ.

MrKalukioh

I find it funny that <Rich> is putting down 1.Nf3 when it was frequented by former world-champion Vladimir Kramnik... I don't really hear much of the trompowsky in high ranked play though. 1. Nf3 is just as good as 1.d4 and 1.e4, its a matter of taste, and if that's all rich was trying to get at (that he just doesn't "like" 1.Nf3) then there is really nothing to discuss with this "sub-topic".

As for the main topic, I don't really see a problem when an opponent plays a silly opening. They usually give you a huge center AND the time to make it rock solid. You have an advantage, that's certain, it just learning how to convert it to a win.

edit: <Rich: I'm no longer tracking this ridiculous topic.>

classy