has the queens Indian defense been refuted?
Sort:
FM
rychessmaster1
Sep 26, 2020
0
#1
It seems less popular than it used to be
It got played a lot so it's normal it falls out of fashion at some point. Another point relevant with modern opening preparation is that 3... b6 already shapes the game whereas Black can play many different things after 3... d5 4. Nc3 and switch between them. Also there have been new developments in lines prevously less explored than the QID, like the Tarrasch, the Semi-Tarrasch and the Ragozin.
Sep 27, 2020
0
#3
QID be a great defence. Safe. Solid. Good chance to win. Petrosian variation can be a good reply.
no
Not exactly, but it remains to bee seen if it will ever recover from the blows Alphazero dealt it. I've heard GM Hambleton say that he wouldn't play it against GMs these days
FizzyBand έγραψε:
Not exactly, but it remains to bee seen if it will ever recover from the blows Alphazero dealt it. I've heard GM Hambleton say that he wouldn't play it against GMs these days
A few wins against a heavily handicapped engine are of zero theoretical importance - more so when the correct moves for Black were well known already in the positions CrippleFish was playing bad moves.
Haha! Cripplefish!! I love it! I'm far from master level and I've definitely seen some footage of stockfish playing well, but I've also seen it flat out call a position a clear advantage for my opponent when that wasn't the case. I may have been down material but threat I'd created with the sacrifice somehow was overlooked by CRIPPLEFISH. I won't deny it's obvious value as an analytics tool. I've learned a lot about the importance of move order and most often can't refute the engine's line of best play given the position, but it's not definitive. It's been beaten. By a human. As to weather it was the most updated version, I couldn't say. What I can say is you can watch Jonathan schrantz beat CRIPPLEFISH on YouTube.
Sac4thewin έγραψε:
Haha! Cripplefish!! I love it! I'm far from master level and I've definitely seen some footage of stockfish playing well, but I've also seen it flat out call a position a clear advantage for my opponent when that wasn't the case. I may have been down material but threat I'd created with the sacrifice somehow was overlooked by CRIPPLEFISH. I won't deny it's obvious value as an analytics tool. I've learned a lot about the importance of move order and most often can't refute the engine's line of best play given the position, but it's not definitive. It's been beaten. By a human. As to weather it was the most updated version, I couldn't say. What I can say is you can watch Jonathan schrantz beat CRIPPLEFISH on YouTube.
Why Cripplefish?
It was playing with a limit of 1 minute per move, no opening book, and just one gigabyte of hash. Under these parameters, it is fairly obvious that it was crippled.
Effectively, it was tuned well enough to lose the match.
Sep 28, 2020
0
#11
rychessmaster1 wrote:
It seems less popular than it used to be
No one uses it since it's quote committal and more often than not white gets a stable edge IMO. Regardless, many ppl do play it and I think it's a sound opening.
Sep 28, 2020
0
#13
rychessmaster1 wrote:
It seems less popular than it used to be
Popularity has nothing to do with soundness. Popularity trends go in waves.
Today, top players like Carlsen and Caruana play openings like the Sveshnikov Sicilian, Rossolimo Sicilian, and Petroff.
Back in the 80s, Your top guys were playing the Caro-Kann w/ 4...Nd7, Najdorf Sicilian, Nimzo/Queens Indian, and Kings Indian
In the 50s, you saw Caro-Kanns with 4...Bf5 or 4...Nf6 along with the French Defense
Does this mean the French was refuted in 1985 or the Najdorf was refuted in 2018? Of course not! Same goes for the Queen's Indian today!
No. Move on, please.
FizzyBand wrote:
Not exactly, but it remains to bee seen if it will ever recover from the blows Alphazero dealt it. I've heard GM Hambleton say that he wouldn't play it against GMs these days
I don't care about computers crushing openings because watching these god level computers play is nothing to worry about as they are computers and we are humans and I think it is still a good opening regardless even if computers are just massacring the QID watching computers is like watching a super gm making a amazing queen sac that doesn't look like it makes any sense so it can be refuted but still be a good defense
Dec 23, 2023
0
#16
xzlin skrev:
FizzyBand wrote:
Not exactly, but it remains to bee seen if it will ever recover from the blows Alphazero dealt it. I've heard GM Hambleton say that he wouldn't play it against GMs these days
I don't care about computers crushing openings because watching these god level computers play is nothing to worry about as they are computers and we are humans and I think it is still a good opening regardless even if computers are just massacring the QID watching computers is like watching a super gm making a amazing queen sac that doesn't look like it makes any sense so it can be refuted but still be a good defense
Well at a certain level people will use the same ideas, and crush it
The Queen's Indian Defense is still alive
https://www.iccf.com/game?id=1360246
Its still alive, but alphazero has heavily damaged it.
Dec 23, 2023
0
#19
in almost all the computer played high rated games, white plays a d4-d5 pawn sac and black must defend a very crooked position to hold the draw. It doesnt look fun at all.
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
in almost all the computer played high rated games, white plays a d4-d5 pawn sac and black must defend a very crooked position to hold the draw. It doesnt look fun at all.
Just doing some analysis and it looks like this simply refutes the 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Be7 line. However, if instead 5… Bb4+ 6. Bd2 c5, Black seems to be doing quite well.