Having trouble with The Kings Indian

Sort:
Blunderfull711

I've been having trouble with the kings Indian defense (one of my favorite defenses as black), Against the six pawns attack I dont seem to get e5 in time.

Should i respond to e4 differently?
I usually have trouble with Nf3 controling the e5 and preping white playing e5 first which seem to be defestating to me?

is this defestating or is there some weakness I'm not seeing?


toiyabe

I don't think you are aware of the tactic that black has that prevents white from winning the e5 pawn.  The move 4...d6 is the main move and prepares 6...e5, Nf3 move from white does not control the square.  Here is the tactic you need to know:



xxvalakixx

Black can play e5 in (as I know) every variation, since it does not lose a pawn. 

For example.

Edit: I wrote this post for too long, when I started to write there were no other commenst, so sorry for writing something that is already mentioned.

But it is quite strange for me that you played this defence and yet didn't know this, since this opening is unplayable without this knowledge.
 

Blunderfull711

Thanks Fixing a hole, but what if white doesnt take the e5 pawn, it seems that the push was pre-mature since now ur e5 pawn is really annoying, it would be arkward to defend and blocks in your dark squared bishop. I'm sure im wrong about this as i am only rated 1400 and only started playing the KID. I also understand that the idea of the KID is to purposely make the dark sqaured bishop bad and work to improve it but i still having some trouble with this concept

Blunderfull711

Also to all the people asking about the name of the openning, six pawns is the actual name of the opening according to the chess.com database and from what i know it refers to the six pawns that black hasnt moved

RRM888

Black can't play e5 in every variation, although he can play e5 in most variations due to the Nxe4 tactic. However, e5 is ill-advised against the Averbakh variation and any variations with an early Bg5 because it can sometimes lead to a decisive material gain for white:

 


toiyabe
Jsmucker wrote:

Thanks Fixing a hole, but what if white doesnt take the e5 pawn, it seems that the push was pre-mature since now ur e5 pawn is really annoying, it would be arkward to defend and blocks in your dark squared bishop. I'm sure im wrong about this as i am only rated 1400 and only started playing the KID. I also understand that the idea of the KID is to purposely make the dark sqaured bishop bad and work to improve it but i still having some trouble with this concept

The push was not pre-mature at all, black MUST strike at the center; white already has a technical positional advantage and black must play actively.  And the idea of the KID isn't necessarily to make a bad bishop and then work to release it, although that is what a lot of people say jokingly about the KID(and it is mostly true, the dark bishop is a bad piece for some middlgames).  There are opportunities for the bishop to be exchanged off at h6 or to become more active on f8 in the future.  

To be honest I would recommend adopting a different opening against d4 if I were you, unless you are willing to put in time to learn the Kings Indian, there is a lot of theory and a lot of positional ideas to know, and many of them you NEED to know; if you don't play a certain move you can get blown off the board due to the massive space advantage you cede to white.  

xxvalakixx
Jsmucker wrote:

Thanks Fixing a hole, but what if white doesnt take the e5 pawn, it seems that the push was pre-mature since now ur e5 pawn is really annoying, it would be arkward to defend and blocks in your dark squared bishop. I'm sure im wrong about this as i am only rated 1400 and only started playing the KID. I also understand that the idea of the KID is to purposely make the dark sqaured bishop bad and work to improve it but i still having some trouble with this concept

It is not premature. After e5 you can play Nc6 when white usually plays d5 and then you can start your attack on the king side. But you should first play classical openings (respond d4 with d5) and after it will be much easier to understand the ideas of openings like the king's indian.

Blunderfull711

I appraciate the advice, I'm at the point where i am trying to settle into my style and deviate from the traditional openings such as the italian game, slav defense, and queens gambit. Before playing KID i responded to d4 with the slav but didnt like it. I do find myself to be more of a positonal player. The wins i do have with the KID, I have opened up attacking lines on the Queen side and taken full advatage (well what i think is full advtage).I do think i am more of a hypermodern player, so i probably will study the KID more.

dashkee94

Jsmucker

If you like attacking the q-side in the KID you might want to look at the lines that don't use e5 like the Panno.  It gives you a sort-of Dragon Sicilian attack on white's q-side.  If you are going to play the e5 lines then you need to know this--white has an advantage in space on the q-side, so attacking there is normally to white's benefit.  You need to play f5-f4 and attack on the k-side, playing for mate.  This normally involves sacrifices, like the c8B living to die violently on h3, Ns on g3, etc.  If you're not prepared to play like this, then the closed KID might not be for you.  And your g7B normally retreats to f8 to protect the d-pawn (and through it c5--a critical square in the KID) and clear the 7th rank to allow a Rg7 lift.  The g7B is a passive piece in the closed KID, whereas in the Panno/Benoni structures it can be an offensive monster.  Hope this helped.

Blunderfull711

Thanks for the advice dashkee i will look into the Panno. But for the record i asked for information about the opening theory of the KID not weither the opening fit me or not. I no better then anyone else which openings i enjoy playing and which openings suit my style of play. For now i know i have had some success with the KID and enjoyed those games as well this makes it worth my time to study. If i latter find out that it doesnt fit my style then so be it

dashkee94

Jsmucker

That's a good attitude to have.  The first defense that I learned against the d-pawn was Lasker's Defense; I could survive to a middlegame that wasn't hopeless, but I couldn't win with it, only draw.  So I tried the Gruenfeld, which I liked visually, but was always getting crushed as black.  I just don't play the Gruenfeld well.  So I switched to the KID and have had excellant results since--a local 2300+ stopped playing d4 against me because "of your damn King's Indian."  So keep trying to find a shoe that fits, and when you do, wear it.  And I think you have the right attitude to find a proper fit.

Blunderfull711

Nice, thanks for your help Dashkee (and others). I deffinitly got some studing to do. Now i have something to do during my boring history class