Help against Double Fianchetto?!

Sort:
Dzindo07

Honestly I didn't know whether to post this in the openings section or beginners section. For some reason at this rating its very popular for a player to fianchetto both of their bishops of the bat. So basically it looks like this:

Usually I end up playing something like this:

This kind of opening just doesn't look sound to me honestly. It seems white always ends up with a bad bishop, it's always awkward to develop the knights and as the game progresses the pawn structure just collapses. I'm looking for advice against it both from white and black perspective.

WSama

Oh man. What I do know is that it's a hypermodern approach, and that usually I've seen black commit to such a strategy.

I think it'd be easier if you presented an official line that looks this way, then we can analyse the reasoning behind it. That'll be easier to work with.

WSama

But, generally, the idea is to put both your bishops on e6 and d6, castle, and then put your queen on d7 to connect the rooks.

As for white, I think they might play e3, next, to both develop the knight and prepare for a center battle. Unless of course white wants to coax black into overextending the center pawns, then they might develop the knights to f3 and c3.

qrotl

Of course white loses his opening advantage playing like that but he develops his pieces logically and doesn't have any weakness so you shouldn't expect a huge advantage. Personally I would just occupy the center and develop normally e.g. d5 e5 Nc6 (maybe f5) Nf6 Bd6 0-0 and take it from there. As you said his space disadvantage makes it hard to find squares for his knights.

MiyanneDella
I don't think fiancheto openings are necessarily unsound, there's actually logic to these moves (as the hypermodern school of chess proves). I find it too passive for white though as she gives up her first move advantage.

My approach against fianchetoes, as white or black, is to take solid control of the center. After developing Ns and Bs to ideal squares, id aim for rooks on d1 and e1 (d8 and e8) and prepare to roll my central pawns forward (or launch pawn storms in either wing).

I think there are many ways for fiancheto games to go, but no need to be too afraid of them. Treat it as any other game. Which means center control is still key.
inkspirit
Harry the h-pawn is often your most powerful weapon against the double fianchetto, particularly the Hippo setup, where the DF side castles short. It forces the DF side (white in the diagram above) to weaken his kingside with h3 or h4, which makes the thematic f2-f4 push difficult to achieve. Black wants to castle queenside and pawn storm the enemy king.

Against the h3 move, a typical idea is h5-h4 followed by a piece sacrifice on g4 (if white responds to h4 with g4), and then h3-h2 disrupting white’s kingside setup.
WSama
inkspirit wrote:
Harry the h-pawn is often your most powerful weapon against the double fianchetto, particularly the Hippo setup, where the DF side castles short. It forces the DF side (white in the diagram above) to weaken his kingside with h3 or h4, which makes the thematic f2-f4 push difficult to achieve. Black wants to castle queenside and pawn storm the enemy king.

Against the h3 move, a typical idea is h5-h4 followed by a piece sacrifice on g4 (if white responds to h4 with g4), and then h3-h2 disrupting white’s kingside setup.

Well, my name is not Harry, but I'll also take that advice. That's just beautiful. Usually as a beginner I would've been slightly reluctant to castle long, but after studying the Sozin attack a bit, as well as the Richter Rauzer, my strategy was refreshed. 

Dzindo07

Thanks for all the advice. Lots of helpful ideas.

Attack_AlwaysAttack

if they start with g3 I recommend a very offbeat response. a5!. The Lasker Simul Special! Using your queen and bishop you can push that pawn as far as a3 and cramp up their kingside.

This is a very crude example, but it works well I have found.

Gibbilo

TBH it seems to me something like this would claim the center, and be less likely to fall victim to some strange pet line.

 

 

With ideas of Nc6, Be7 maybe, and 0-0. If 5. c4 then I like 5...Nc6 (though computer recommends d4), and if cxd5 then exd5 and you are already equal with open  lines.

 

Though for my personal repertoire, I'll often play something like:

 

With ideas of Old Indian or King's Indian.

Lord_Hammer

A finachetto development helps keep your c, d, and e files unblocked. For example a bishop on d3 blocks the d file. On e2 it blocks the e file. etc.

A finchetto bishop tends to dislike a knight on the 3rd rank (for white) or 6th rank (for black) because it blocks the bishop. Usually this knight repositions itself or develops to the 2nd rank straight away in the opening. An f3 knight often goes to h4 or d2 for example.

But a finchetto bishop doesn't mind a knight in the center. So while the N@f3 might annoy the B@g2, a knight on e4 doesn't tongue.png. Basically this is because a centralized knight is strong.

 

Another tip:
Players who are post-beginners, but still lack experience, sometimes rush to trade off their opponent's finachettoed bishop. For example vs a bishop on g7 they might play Be3 Qd2 and Bh6. This is not always good because sometimes the fianchettoed bishop is inactive. In some KID, KIA, and Pirc games you can get structures like this:

 

And then the other tricky sort of consideration is that whenever you trade bishops of the same color... you have to consider that maybe the player with weakened squares is you!