There's a reason that there are very few books on the Grob out there: it's simply terrible. The only opening that really is as bad as the Grob is 1. h4, and I personally think that the Grob is worse... There's really nothing to learn about the opening, it devastates the Kingside in the hopes that your opponent grabs the g-pawn, allowing counterplay down the light squares for white (and even this counterplay is insufficient, since you must play c4 at some point to get this counterplay, and then the King will never find a safe home.). If black doesn't take the g-pawn, and instead plays to undermine white's already devastated kingside with moves like h5, then White played g4 for nothing... And that is the Grob in a nutshell, and why there is only one quality book out there (The Killer Grob, by Basman), because there's nothing to explore... it's all bad for white! If you really are a true Grob lover, though, then all the respect for you, and good luck on your strange journey!
Help needed! The tactical grob
U have a point...it's not a "sound" opening but then neither are most of the gambit openings or lines like the traxler counter attack where computer analysis says the move b-c5 is a blunder but after 5 nxf7 in all the games in the grandmaster database black wins 75% compared to white winning 7%!
The grob leads to tactically thrilling fun games involving lots of traps. We r playing humans who fall for traps, who cares if its not the soundest opening out there, it gives huge success well above my rating.
Anyway, I was hoping not to end up in a debate about the soundness of the gob. Can anyone give me any advice about good reading material?
Descriptive notation takes some getting used to but after a while it's not so bad. It's like learning the squares on the board over again. I still mix up the squares sometimes though. Your book is probably more of a theoretical manual rather than an instructive one and probably not the most user-friendly book for a first time reader.
What moves were played before 5 N-QB3?
por fo+afor
por favor quiero aprender aperturas
I have all the major books on the Grob, and Basman's book is the best--but all of them are woefully inadequate to form a full repertoire as white. A lot of exploration and self study is needed to make this a workable opening.
I had a LOT of fun with the Grob for awhile. Basman's book, The Killer Grob, is well written, instructional, and entertaining. The book teaches you that occupying the center is not as important as controlling it. With the Grob, (and other openings) you hope to control it from the side.
This is taken from the book...
...However, the more valuable the piece, the more exposed it is in the centre, hence we get the idea "Pieces go into the center in reverse order of strength (or value)".
Thus the pawns, the weakest pieces of all, go into the centre first. Then come the knights and bishops, with the heavy pieces, the Queens and rooks, holding up the rear. The King, the most valuable piece, does not usually arrive in the centre until very late in the game, since his exposure rating is very high.
Having decided that the pawn is the weakest piece, we should consider, "What is weaker than a pawn?". The answer is, clearly, that NOTHING is weaker than a pawn. It follows, with inexorable logic, that you should place NOTHING in the centre at the start of the game, and that, therefore, moves such as 1.e4 or 1.d4 or their equivalents as Black, are PREMATURE and will lead to the exposure of the central position.
So the new theory in no way undervalues the importance of the centre -- pieces strive towards the centre to enhance their power. It is just a question of when the should arrive there.
I find that interesting. But I think I'm more fond of this statement:
When you play the Grob, each game is a marvelous adventure, a trip into uncharted territory.
That's definitely true.
My record with the Grob in over-the-board tournament chess is 7 wins, 2 draws, and 1 loss. At the 1997 National Open in Las Vegas, I won a piece against an 1805 player on move 8 playing the Grob. You can definitely play it at the Under 1600 with confidence. If you know the opening better than your opponent, you'll probably come out of the opening with an advantage.
I don't have The Tactical Grob, so I can't answer your specific questions about it.
Saw your comment on a blog, thought I'd send this message to you in case you'd miss it. I play this exclusively and learned it in the park to hustlers who took my money. I learned it slowly in correspondence chess and it truly works when you figure out the lines. Tactics galore, hesitation on the opponents part who is seeing this usually for the first time (true novelty alert), most crucially, it puts the fun & fight back in 2 chess and does what the opening's supposed to do: creates a difference around which you build your army, not the other way around. Besides who the hell doesn't know 20 moves deep into the sicilian or Ruy, that's not chess, that's memorization. How unfun. This style is a fight and makes people think from move one; not to mention all of the traps in it lawdy lawd, you can win pieces in 5 moves, checkmates in under 10, and 1/7 games end by move 8 with a piece lost and a big fat resignation take my word for it if you are under 2000 you can learn tons playing this old Genoa style. Tartakower played it in simuls, and it is offbeat enough to send shivers down the spines of the booklearned. Eric
Folks, forget that wuss Basman, he misses the entire point of it. 2. h3?? please; what an idjit.
The thing is with the "Grob" is you are really never going to get a really definative answer to it's merrits.
You will have those who have a strict all most religious like devotion to the classical dogma of opening theory (i.e never weaken your king side, its unsound, blah blah blah). These indviduals, more than likely have never tried an attacking opening in their lives let along an opening that falls outside the scope of their precious dogma.They will tell you in as many words as possible the Grob is total crap.
On the other hand you will have those who set their sights on what I like to call a politically incorrect opening (sometimes of their own creation) and will carry an almost religious like crusade to defend that openings merrits. These inidviduals will tell you that the Grob is the best thing on the chess board since the coming of the game itself.
Lastly you have those who know that the Grob has theoritcal flaws (amongst other things) but still play it regardless. Such players usually argue that the Grob is worth ago given the right circumstances (that is taking into account what kind of chess you are playing such as rapid or postal and who one it playing it against, in another words any ratings difference) but from expereince does come with a health warning.
Each have their own thoughts and opinions.
One last thought. Cosmicharmonic I beleive is quite right. I think it was Bloodgood in his booklet who pointed out 1.g4 d5 2.h3 f5! is rather good for Black. It is hard to disagree.
1. g4 d5 2. h3 f5 may be good for Black, but this hardly "refutes" 2. h3 since 2. ...c5, e5, h5, c6, e6 , Nc6 etc are all good for Black. Therefore, I think White should improve on move 1... ;)
Also, there is a pretty definitive answer in regards to the Grob... It's utter crap.
1. g4 d5 2. h3 f5 may be good for Black, but this hardly "refutes" 2. h3 since 2. ...c5, e5, h5, c6, e6 , Nc6 etc are all good for Black. Therefore, I think White should improve on move 1... ;)
Also, there is a pretty definitive answer in regards to the Grob... It's utter crap.
+1
I know I have The Killer Grob burried in a drawer somewhere. I don't play the Grob, so I've had no use for it. ( Do play the Polish, however. Explain that one.)
It is a decent enough book, with lots of diagrams. But Basmans analysis is less than convincing often times. And many of his example games come from a particular G/30 tournament, even I played in once. Its like, really?!
I know I have The Killer Grob burried in a drawer somewhere. I don't play the Grob, so I've had no use for it. ( Do play the Polish, however. Explain that one.)
It is a decent enough book, with lots of diagrams. But Basmans analysis is less than convincing often times. And many of his example games come from a particular G/30 tournament, even I played in once. Its like, really?!
Why did you block me? Perhaps you will think twice next time you want to repeat some tired old rumor you read in some worthless "blog".
ratty80, Google Caude Bloodgood. Read a few of the articles.
5 N QB3 isn't Nb3 is Knight to file queen bishop so is NC3
file a: queen rook file QR file h: king rook file KR
file b: queen knight file QN file G:king knight file KN
file c: queen bishop file QB file f: king bishop file KB
file d: queen file Q file e: king file K
so lets begin with a common game
1 N KB3 (nc3) N KB3(nc6)
I've just bought a book (my first chess book) called the tactical grob by Claude bloodgood. I am really eager to learn about this opening as it fascinates me and I've had a lot of success with it. I'm amazed at just how difficult to digest the book actually is. It has very few diagrams, it's written in an old chess format that I'm not familier with and it seems to be so badly laid out that despite spending hours and hours studying it I can't even get passed the second paragraph. I'm either missing something or there are errors in the script, as it says 5 N-QB3 at the start of page 8 but there is already a pawn on this square! Has anyone else read this book?
Are chess books typically this hard to follow?
Has anyone read the ebook "the killer grob"? Maybe this is better written? Does an ebook have frequent chess boards that u can play moves through?
Any help would massively appreciated :-)