help with e4 opening

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Avatar of thechessteacher

The Fegatello variation of the Italian game (known also as the Fried Liver) comes about only after a very risky move by Black.

For players new to 1.e4, it is often recommended to play the Italian game.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4. This is a very old opening with a long tradition that has been played by many top players throughout the centuries.

Here, the most popular move, 3...Nf6, can be met by 4.Ng5. This violates opening principles by moving the same piece twice in the opening, and by attacking before developing the army. However, it has some sting to it as there are two minor pieces attacking Black's weak point at f7, and it is only defended by the King.

The only three reasonable moves here for Black are the intuitive 4...d5 (blocking the Bishop), 4...Bc5!? (the Traxler counterattack), and 4...Nxe4!? (a very counterintuitive move you may never see).

Every other move is bad. 4....h6 5.Nxf7 is the classic example, forking rook and queen.

4...Qe7 is best met by 5.Bxf7+. A common beginner mistake here is 5.Nxf7 Rg8 6.Nd6+? (better is 6.Ng5 with a White advantage) 6...cxd6 (or Qxd6) 7.Bxg8 Nxg8 with advantage to Black. White has given up his two developed pieces for a rook and a pawn, and Black can still castle queenside so he is perfectly safe.

4...Rg8 5.Bxf7+ is another double attack.

So after the most common move, 4...d5, White takes the pawn 5.exd5 and here Black has a number of reasonable moves. Most common is 5...Na5, sacrificing the pawn and attacking the bishop. This is Black's best try.

The risky 5...Nxd5!? is played mostly by beginners. At beginner level it is instructive to play through the Fried Liver Attack, which begins 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3+. Here White is much better if Black does not defend the knight with the insane-looking 7...Ke6 because White will simply capture on d5 with the Bishop threatening various checkmates on f7/g5. After 7...Ke6 8.Nc3 White is attacking the pinned piece again. The game from here gets very complicated! So work on tactics and increase your winning chances.

6.d4 is probably objectively a stronger move than 6.Nxf7. The idea is to sacrifice on f7 only after developing more.

Avatar of BishopCannons
ajedrecito wrote:

I don't think the Sicilian is an opening you will be 'sliced and diced' by at the sub-2000 level ;)....

In addition to 1...e5 there are a number of other possible replies: 1...c5 is the most popular move in tournament play (the Sicilian Defense). Here the main line runs 2.Nf3 followed by 3.d4 against most Black moves (2...a6 in particular is not met by 3.d4 but instead by either 3.c4 or 3.c3, for reasons I would not like to go into in any kind of introduction to playing 1.e4) and this is called the Open sicilian. Black will take on d4 most of the time and White will recapture with the Knight. This creates an imbalance: Black has a queenside minority (the minority attack is an overarching theme in many Sicilian defenses) and an extra central pawn, White develops the pieces more easily and can attack more easily, generally speaking. These lines are lots of fun for both sides! Other possibilities exist but this is my recommendation.....

1...e6 is the third most common move (after 1...c5 and 1...e5) and this is called the French defense. As a general rule, if Black lets you play 2.d4 without either controlling that square with a pawn or attacking your e4 pawn (or hanging a pawn with 1...b5) it is advisable to play it on move two. So 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 (attacking the e4 Pawn) and now the main move is 3.Nc3 defending the pawn......

The best way to learn is to play games! See what you like and don't like. Play through some famous games (I could recommend a few as could other players) to learn the basic ideas, attacks and defenses, etc. Good luck!


 After playing chess for 35+ years it has been my experience and that of grandmasters, that the Sicilian Defense, (particularly the Najdorf variation), is the opening black wants to use when playing for a win against 1.e4 and the Sicilian Defense has the highest winning percentages against 1.e4.  Once understood, it is an excellent opening for black to play.  The Sicilian Najdorf, 1.e4, c5  2.Nf3, d6  3. d4, cxd  4.Nxd, Nf6  5. Nc3, a6 is known far and wide as an extremely potent defense that can turn into a vicious attack very quickly. In some lines, it isn't even necessary for black to castle, which can lead to a massive, overwhelming and decisive kingside attack against white.  One of the all time best Sicilian Najdorf players in the history of the game is Bobby Fischer, an expert on this opening. Here is a great video of one of his fantastic games using the Sicialin Najdorf --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tw_wsPmtTg

  The tables can be turned on the French Defense with the Reti Gambit and it has very high winning percentages vs the French Defense. 1.e4, e6 2. b3!  Here is a fantastic video on this potent opening that used properly, can make your French Defense playing opponent quite uncomfortable. Enjoy.Smile  -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w53jqnNrOo0

  If we just play games, making the same mistakes over and over again, becoming frustrated, it might have a very negative outcome with a players game.  I personally feel the best way to improve one's play is by analyzing grandmaster games, which teaches the player the expert moves a grandmaster makes and the reasons behind them.  From chess legend Anatoly Karpov's excellent book, How to Play the English Opening, http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to-play-the-english-opening-anatoly-karpov/1008460046?ean=9780713490657&itm=1&usri=how%2bto%2bplay%2bthe%2benglish%2bopening

 "Karpov believes the best way to learn an opening is to play through the well-annotated grandmaster games, and then you will assimilate the recurring ideas, plans and tactics naturally, almost effortlessly - in much the same way as you would best learn a foreign language by talking to native speakers". 

  One of the very best books I can recommend for any chess player, (especially today with so many player's making the mistake of trying to mimic the play of a chess computer), is -> "Winning With Chess Psychology", by Pal Benko, International Grandmaster. Benko was one of the few grandmasters who could give Bobby Fischer a tough time and defeated Fischer more than once. In other words, he knows his stuff. Smile  This great book is currently out of print but you can still obtain a good used copy from Barnes and Noble for only $2.69 --> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/s/winning-with-chess-psychology

Avatar of bresando

Accusing publicly other players of cheating is one of the most miserable things you can do. If you have suspects against him, contact the apposite chess.com service. Throwing random acusations around will earn you very little respect.

While it is true thet reasonabledoubt is sometimes a bit harsh in his posts, this can be excused in a 15 years old guy. His chess is very good and he has provided good ideas in the past.

Avatar of BishopCannons

 If they are a cheater, why not report the issue and have them banned?  I do this all the time and have many cheater scalps on my belt.  "Moo ha haaa!"  Laughing

 Report cheaters here --> http://support.chess.com/Tickets/Submit/RenderForm/21

Avatar of BishopCannons
ReasonableDoubt wrote:
Fasaa wrote:
cofail wrote:
Fasaa wrote:

Ruy lopez - bigger chance to get a draw

Italian game - bigger chance to win

Scotch - between those two openings

I'd study Italian though, it has proven to be the best in my experience.

Oh and all of this is according to my database, so if someone wants to argue with me, please do.


I'm arguing. The choice of opening between the scotch, italian, and ruy lopez will have minimal difference on a beginner.


What I meant was my statistics... For a beginner who plays against limited people, I would recommend to study their strategies and abuse them.. 

And the fried liver attack from Italian works pretty nicely against other beginners... I'm sure your family knows nothing about Traxler anyway.


I'll happily argue with you, on account of the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about.  The Ruy leads to complex positional games with a lot of maneuvering where both sides form plans and attempt to execute them to gain positional advantages.  But, as your database says that it has draws, that means that playing the Ruy is for people who want a "bigger chance to draw" and love draws, like Bobby Fischer. 


 Bobby Fischer despised draws and would many times play on even though the position was indeed a draw. 

Avatar of BishopCannons
bresandoJust play tons of games and you will leard how to play e4. Nothing more is needed for a beginner.

  Playing a, "ton of games", making the wrong moves, is not a very effective or efficient way to learn to play chess.  Doing this is a huge waste of time and very frustrating. It is far better to go over grandmaster games, learning the correct way to play an opening instead of un-learning the bad habits playing a, "ton of games", will cause. 

Avatar of BishopCannons
Fasaa wrote:

Ruy lopez - bigger chance to get a draw

Italian game - bigger chance to win

Scotch - between those two openings

I'd study Italian though, it has proven to be the best in my experience.

Oh and all of this is according to my database, so if someone wants to argue with me, please do.


  The Ruy Lopez has almost a 38% winning percentge, where'as black against it has a winning percentage of only 26%. 

  There is no one, "best", opening. The best opening to use depends on the experience level of the players involved on both sides, as well as their personalities or style of play. You can reference your database all you want, but what do you do with your memorized database when your opponent plays a move outside of book lines? What then?  Understanding chess and becoming a better player is far more involved than just memorizing moves. 

  To quote Emanuel Lasker, the longest reigning Chess World Champion, (27 years) - "The best move is the one that upsets your opponent the most".  Wise words and computers can't find moves like that, only people can. 

Avatar of tigergutt

the first thing you should do is to see how you feel about playing the open sicilian as white. if you dont like the open or like the antisicilians better then 1.e4 is probably not your style and you are better off with 1.d4 or something:)

Avatar of kruddy123

first of all i want to thank you all for all the comments, this is my first post on chess.com and i did,nt think the forum would be this good

i have made notes of the comments and line which will help me study,

my plan of action is to look through grandmaster games on chess games and youtube, play e4 on here and with my family, and in 4-6 months when i have got enough knowlegde on how to play e4 and it defenses against it, i will start to play e4 in games at my chess club

Avatar of BishopCannons
kruddy123 wrote:

first of all i want to thank you all for all the comments, this is my first post on chess.com and i did,nt think the forum would be this good

i have made notes of the comments and line which will help me study,

my plan of action is to look through grandmaster games on chess games and youtube, play e4 on here and with my family, and in 4-6 months when i have got enough knowlegde on how to play e4 and it defenses against it, i will start to play e4 in games at my chess club


  There are two excellent chess channels on YouTube I can heartily recommend to you. One is; Majnu2006 --> http://www.youtube.com/user/Majnu2006

 The other is Killegar Chess --> http://www.youtube.com/user/SeanGGodley

  Both of these channels have many chess video's for you that are very, very well done. There are many chess channels on YouTube, but from what I've seen, in my opinion they are just all the rest. Smile

Avatar of Isslow

I used to play d4 many moons ago as well, kruddy123. One day it occurred to me that Black had about 14 main line (book) reply options and that unless I was prepared to study like a grandmaster, and unless I believed I could remember all the strategic themes and traps in all 14 or so lines, playing d4 gave my opponent an advantage in that they effectively chose the opening, their favourite line, which they were likely to know well - better than me!

So I started to think about an alternative 1st move, and soon realised that the above was just as true for e4. You pick ONE move but your oponent can pick from one of the many Sicilian lines, Centre Counter, etc, etc. - in other words they have to "know" less than you do to be as much at home with their opening.

Of course, the argument for d4 or e4 is that these aim to take 1st grabs at the centre, and so confer a positional advantage, and I’m sure that at a higher level than you or I are playing, this is true. If you want to and plan to become a Grandmaster, you will maybe have to grab this central advantage on move 1 and learn and know all the lines that you will then face.

However, I believe that until you get to being in excess of ELO 2000 this central advantage is less important than being at home with your position and knowing more about it’s tricks than your opponent does. At our level, if you want the attacking game you asked for in your original question, you are more likely to carry it out successfully if you have made your opponent uneasy by taking him/her “out of their book and into yours”.

You are a young, improving player with a fast brain. Why not throw your opponent, who will often be older and dozier than you are, a whole pack of unfamiliar and brain-scrambling problems with 1. b4, 1. f4, 1. g3 or something else from near the back not the front of the manual of chess openings?