Hippopotamus Defence

there is this lovely thing called Family resemblance which lets you navigate these debates quite comfortably.

itsl like the people that insist a london is not a london unless the moves on the board are EXACTLY c3, d4, e3, bf4, nf3 nd2. Although in the hippo case its even worse, imagine getting everything right except you didnt have time to play h6, NOT A HIPPO, or you played nf6 instead of ne7 and everything else is correct NOT A HIPPO. 
to me, a hippo is any situation with double fianchetto, the small center (d6, e6) and at least one of the knights on the 7th. Whether that includes the works (a6, h6, both knights on the 7th or not etc) or not is not entirely necessary. I like to call the formation with g5 and b5 instead the "hyper-hippopotamus which is a variant of the above.

The hippo is a system, systems are not defined by precise moves by both sides but formations. Since chess however is a game that revolves around exploiting your opponents mistakes ,slight deviations from an intended system played are fairly common,but you havent left the general formation.

How much change can a system endure and remain the same system? this a question of convention not ontology. Actually, one of the issues with databases relying on strict move orders to categorize openings is how useless the categorization becomes. Say im looking for hippo games, because the database doesnt recategorize it as a hippo except under a small number of specific move orders, it misses the categorization and will be called a modern or an owen or w.e the defense began as when clearly almost any human will see it was a hippo, (regardless if h6 was played or not, or if black had to play e5 before finishing his picturesque formation).
stubborness in opening categorization leads to sloppy cataloguing. That they are borderline cases does not invalidate the superior usefulness of the flexible categorization approach over the algorithmic one.
Desantis approach is a little difference. instead of going full family resemblance, he goes for the pure hippo being the one with everything and all the practical deviations as semi-hippos. I dont like this approach of categorization because some of these are simply other defenses period. For example in the diagram below, the last position is clearly just one of the dutch formations. in another you have a generic QID ish aproach that you also see in some QGD and other queen pawn positions as black. Calling these semi-hippos as well just confuses. for the purposes of reviewing deviations within a hippo book, its ok to call them semi-hippos but not outside that domain.

I've used chess databases for over 20 years, but I stopped using them when I started playing the Hippo.because it's played against so many different white set ups it's nearly impossible to search for them 'en massee'. You've basically got to search the 'Full Hippo' set up regardless of what white plays, so it's extremely hard to study 'other' moves within the Hippo without hunting them down specifically. I have a collection of 381 Grandmaster games (all wins for black) which I compiled from my database of over 10 million games. Nearly all with the Full Hippo set up, but white is doing all sorts of stuff in these games. It's such an elusive opening to pin down into any particular category.

I rarely deviate from the Full Hippo, even when white pushes f4, but if I reach Robert Drury's level and start getting crushed by stronger players I might consider it, so I can keep attempting to play my Hippo in every single game with white and black. As long as I still get my Full Hippo (or close to it) most of the time. I just hope I reach his level first so becomes an issue, because the players I play right now are fairly clueless against the Full Hippo. I won 11 games in a row yesterday.

I love all the discussion on this page, the points of view, different perspectives on the Hippo.

But the greatest thing of all about this incredible opening is - if we Hippo players can't figure it out ... how in hell can our opponents? 🤣

I think Hippo defense is a slow defense. You find yourself in cramp position. I have played it as black many times.

This is pretty much the best vindication of the hippo at least at a practical level . I woudnt go out of my way to play this agaisnt an opponent that 100% expects me to play it next round and even knows the move order i will use, but agaisnt an opponent who prob sees all the stuff i play a round before, what chance realistically is there that they will play the most testing line from my move order? they probably divided their energy on everything i play and barely looked at the hippo.

It's cramped like a coiled spring is cramped. Watch out when it un-cramps itself! 🤣

I actually love my opponents attacking me. I used to play the Dragon years ago and I only seemed to win when my opponent was squeezing me into a corner after my opening failed. My own attacks usually just fell flat and I would lose. I suppose i'm a counter-attacking player, so the Hippo is like a dream opening for me. The Hippo has a kind of "Come at me bro!" attitude! 🦛

The Hippo is a glorious enigma. But the more we play it we gain an 'experience' advantage over our opponents. I love this quote from the Chess Giant, Solomon Ruddell. "Before long you will have played 1000 Hippo games and your opponent probably hasn't even seen it before let alone studied it!"

the issue though is that now far more than say, spassky's time, we all have the same "coach" which is a 3600 silicon monster that will suggest annoying ideas and universalize them for us all. 
here is the line that worries me most from my move order and its the one suggested by the engines.

i think in this position, black is almost in zugswang. The moves suggested are often just shuffling pieces around almost aimlessly .There is one plan, which is to play bxd4, then go e5, and it somewhat logical, you put your pawns in the opposite color of your remaining bishop , and black can continue with f6 and either 0-0 or start a small pawn storm. but this is very speculative. engine hovers around 1.2 which is usually where i draw the line between funky and outright bad. it just seems that whites expansion via, the queenside via, rb1, b4, and eventually c4-c5 is more menacing than whatever clumsy counterattack black can muster.

I always found Stockfish gave white +1 in most Hippo positions, but engines see 50 moves ahead and humans don't.

Engine preparation for white is very difficult because the Hippo can pop up in so many different ways.

I'd like to see two strong players play that position out just to see where it went! 🤣

Whoever likes the Hippo will certainly find the Modern Gurgenidze system as interesting. While there is some similarity in the philosophy of the opening, Black's position is much less passive, the positional ideas are well defined, and finally there is an excellent book on it- by Estonian/American GM Jaan Ehlvest.

the problem is that this idea suggests itself pretty easily , once white has developed most of his pieces, he will ask himself which pawn to advance, and d4-d5 is far better than e4-e5 here. Then, its just a matter of which piece belongs in the recently available square? bishop d4 is not bad but nd4 is better putting pressure in key squares and less likely for black to willingly give his bishop for it. So the idea may be an engine suggestion but it is super logical and not difficult to find.
the engine eval is not what worries me. a high engine eval but with a clear plan is usually fine, e.g old indian is like this, but here i have no idea how black is supposed to improve his position whereas whites basic plan is super straightforward and THAT is very dangerous . That means white will have almost no issue playing near if not the most accurate moves whereas black is inviting his position to drift into dead loss territory.

After playing 1000s of Hippo games my hand would simply refuse to push c6 on move 2! 🤯

It definitely looks like a cousin of the Hippo though.

I feel your pain waiting for that book The Hippo book world could also do with a few more additions.

Do you know if that line has ever been played before? Or is it a new idea you've spotted while studying the Hippo? I'm actually starting to get slightly worried!

according to the lichess database, the position at move 13 for black has been reached 3 times. Once by spassky in 1988 agaisnt lembit, so unfortunately it is a high profile hippo game and twice by a strong correspondence player named Burmeister. the spassky, game has him erring by playing 14. a5?! when a6 was necessary, although its not what caused the loss. As for the burmeister, none of his games show a satisfactory reply to this idea , in one he plays for ne5 and c5 but honestly that looks to be more weakening than merely stalling and in the other he stalled an played a suspect rf8. He actually won that game but not because of anything great he did out of the opening.
so to answer you question, this continuation is not unknown based on the spassky game alone.

One Eric Hansen Hippo and three of your own Hippos were all I could find as examples to study. All fairly similar games.

You don't get much more high profile than Boris Spassky! It's certainly a good thing you've raised this topic. Hopefully a Super-GM looks at this thread and shares their novelty antidote for it! 🤞

This is the full Spassky game for anybody curious about this line.

actually things maybe even slightly worse than i initially thought. If white instead of playing 0-0 early like in the line i suggested immediately goes c4 after d6 and focuses on nc3, be3 qd2, not only is d5 then give a higher eval after going for the normal hippo set up leaving ne7 for last,but white can also 0-0-0 which is also more dangerous as the f5 thrust is even less meaningful then.

im starting to sour on the hippo unfortunately. it just seems that whenever you finally find the right tweak to partially defang a critical line , you soon realize you created two other problems by tweaking white's move order. I have no issues playing offbeat openings, but willingly playing something bad by relying almost solely on white's ignorance is really not my thing.

I'm sad to hear that. A lot of Grandmasters use the Hippo for a surprise weapon in speed chess, including Nakamura and Carlsen, even against Super-GMs. The line you suggest is probably fairly unlikely in a 3 minute game, but in longer time controls the chances obviously go up. Hopefully you come back to the Hippo someday, it's been a treat to read your detailed analysis on this thread.

This oppening fit hypermodern chess ,so it is dangerous weapon in right hend..Its not for everyone ,be carefuel and make wise choice.