How to counter the Ruy Lopez/Spanish Game?

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Avatar of Greymiles

Everytime i play against someone who starts out with the Ruy Lopez, I go into the Berlin Defence and not the Philidor, yet after that he takes my Knight with his bishop I dunno what to do

Avatar of NimzoRoy

Stop playing the Berlin Defense and try playing the Schliemann or Classical Defense instead. Or else you could try looking it up right here in the Game Explorer and start analyzing every game after it's over, win lose or draw. Or else start playing the Petroff Defense.

Avatar of pfren

Give a specific example... else we cannot sniff what's the actual problem.

Avatar of Greymiles

Thanks for the help everyone.

Avatar of easylimbo

just play the main line to every response. if Bb5, a6. if Bxc6, dxc6. if Ba4, Nf6.

Avatar of Crazychessplaya

4.Bxc6 may look like a dumbass move in the Berlin, but it was played by Sutovsky, Delchev, Ljubojevic, Khachian and Mastrovasilis. Probably as a draw offer.

Avatar of Crazychessplaya
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of pfren

It's not THAT easy. The position resembles the Flohr exchange (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.Bxc6), as the extra Black tempo ...a7-a6 is close to useless. Black has equality of course, but not an automatic one.

Avatar of Vyomo

Well, I'd suggest..... the Pirc!

Simplest way to forego all of this Spanish stuffWink

Avatar of Greymiles

One time I did the Mortimer's Trap and my opponent fell for it. 

Avatar of Greymiles
paulgottlieb wrote:

I don't understand your problem. The Berlin Defense is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6. If White now plays 4.Bxc6, you just play 4...dxc6 and you have virtually equalized after only 4 moves.


The problem is, when I go into the Berlin Defense, my opponent immediately takes my Knight forcing me to double my pawns. After that, he takes my King's Pawn and I immediately lose the control for the center. 

Avatar of Arctor

In these types of positions, when White  takes on e5 without first defending his own pawn (either with d3 or Nc3 or indirectly with O-O threatening a pin on the e-file with Re1) you can regain it with a good game by playing Qd4

Avatar of pfren

In the last diagram, Black is simply better after 5...Qd4 (Bishop pair, easier development).

Avatar of Greymiles
Arctor wrote:

In these types of positions, when White  takes on e5 without first defending his own pawn (either with d3 or Nc3 or indirectly with O-O threatening a pin on the e-file with Re1) you can regain it with a good game by playing Qd4


That's seems like a good recommendation. I'll try it next time.

Avatar of funnymadman
Avatar of AugustB3

Awesome reply. Glad I checked this out.

Avatar of blueemu

funnymadman posted: "Black does have a doubled Pawn on the c file, but White can no longer castle"

Neither factor is all that important. The doubled Pawns are on the same side of the board as White's majority, so they are not much of a handicap. Loss of castling rights means little with the Queens gone, especially since White has the option of Re1 and then Kf1.

Black's pair of Bishops is rather more meaningful.

Avatar of konhidras

As a player of the white side of the Ruy lopez exchange ( you can see that in my games mostly blitz) my only advise is to study the endings that arise from this opening. You really ought to know the ending brother or youll also miss your chance of winning drawn positions that mostly occur in the exchange. (my second tip: study fischer's games as white in the exchange and that of the Lasker-capablanca game in st. petersburg 1914. youll get the idea).

Avatar of Chesseer007

This is a good line for black to help against the Ruy Lopez that I have played in my games. I recommend this as it avoids any double pawn structures.

Avatar of king5minblitz119147

once you decide to play the spanish as black, i think you absolutely have to study the exchange variation structures down to the king and pawn endgame. you can't really avoid it, unless you play the bird variation 3..nd4 which i think is bad due to the kasparov-khalifman model game. further, white can take on c6 in many different move orders and there are certain nuances that need to be understood. if you play the berlin, white takes on c6 anyway as it is currently the main anti-berlin line. he normally plays d3 first though, to defend e4 and see what black does.