How to defeat the Stonewall?

I've faced it very few times but I think I've lost 3 out of 4 games...

Also I saw there's a Magnus Course on this maybe that's why it's more popular recently?

Here is a game I lost:

this one I won:

In both games I went for a d6 setup... the other 2 games I lost I can't find them but I played a d5 setup to prevent the knight from jumping in but lost worse..

If I start 1.Nf6 how do I play the most challenging way for the Stonewall?

Thx

I remember someone wrote "you take simple defensive measures on the king side and pawn storm the queenside".

Like in this correspondence game:

Your d6 setup, with a queenside fianchetto, is perfectly playable. I actually play much the same, on some occassions.

It might surprise you to know that you were actually winning in that game - pretty much the whole game.

You only lost on the final move, when you played ...Qf6??

Instead, ...Bf4! would have completely neutralized White's attack, and you likely would have gone on to win the game without much trouble at all.

So, to summarize: your setup was fine. You were winning much of the game, actually.

You just missed a tactic, that's all. And there were also other tactical opportunities that you missed along the way, too - a minor point, though. The main point is that you recognize that your general setup is fine and completely playable against the Stonewall.

Dude, that's a different opening.

The least we can say is that colors are reversed, but we all know that it makes a ton of a difference.

ah ok! cool. If you can find/post any of your games vs Stonewall i'd love that. I feel like there should be some way to improve the move orders... Most of my games even if I have a good position it seems like White has the fun and puts on pressure...

thx for writing man u rock

Crikey though, that was bad play by black. They're supposed to have computers to help them aren't they? So many bad decisions.

When white plays the Stonewall, I play solidly and positionally with d5 and c5, which prevents white building a big centre. I play classically, with e6, Be7 and 0-0. I play b6 to swap off the light squared bishops and black's q then goes to c8 if you don't wish to allow the fork on Qd8 and Bd7. It's not bad to allow that because white's N gets to move four times in succession.

Then it's a case of maneouvring black's knights to command e4 and white has to be very careful. This method of completely neutralising the Stonewall Attack was taught to me by a Blind Chess World Champion whom I knew fairly well, because I used to take him to club matches at one point.

Cool can you share? I didn't understand how you mean to trade LSB... I normally lose when I play d5 I always lose although I know d5 is the principled way

If you have a game to show thatd be awesome thx bro

Something like ...b6 followed by ...Ba6 to exchange white's d3 bishop (which is his strongest attacking piece in the stonewall) is positionally desirable for black.

https://www.chess.com/game/daily/315808786

I hope that @REVENGE-010 doesn't mind me using this game. I respect the man ... he's a good player.

I think the engine here gave me 92.8% accuracy for this but in reality it must have been near 100% At one point it marked me down for a move that forced the win. The move the engine wanted to play only drew. At other points it marked me down, for instance, when I advanced the K in the ending because it maintained the win and seemed safer in a line I'd spotted. Engines are no good at positional chess like this. No good at all.

The final position's winning because black will wipe out white's k-side pawns or queen the a-pawn. There were few tactics and they depended on white's offside rook, which was a move late getting back in this game. If white doesn't blunder it should be a draw but black will have the pressure, due to white's bad dark squared bishop.

Against the Stonewall, you need to get in d5. Your failure was because White got in e4 very quickly. The way to beat the Stonewall is to keep domination of the e4-square and aim for a N vs DSB ending (Black getting the N) or else allow e4 only if you have a ready-made winning attack in return for it, like pressuring d4 to make e4 hard for White to play because it weakens d4.

Queen's Indian setups against the Stonewall formation don't work if White knows what they are doing.

Yes, you can't play Bb7. It's a wasted piece.

A very fun try that I'd highly recommend (as you appear to be a b6-Bb7 NID, QID, or English Defense player) is 2... b6 3. Bd3 Bb7! completely neutering any thoughts of a traditional Stonewall 4. f4 structure.

oh man i loved this game. it might sound funny to you because it's so trivial but trading bishops never occured to me cuz im used to QID and only go Ba6 in Nimzo stuff. This is better than going for crazy tactics... thx!!! (when i tried d5 I lost most games)

ill speak on potential antidotes when i wake up from bed in 8-10 hours

How to Defend Against the Stonewall Attack...

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/how-to-defend-against-the-stonewall-attack?cid=51256208&page=1#comment_box

For an introduction to the The Stonewall Attack check out...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/stonewall-attack

There was an article in the December 1981 issue of Chess Life magazine, pp. 34-36, by IM Larry D. Evans (not the former US Open Champion GM Larry M. Evans, who was a friend of Bobby Fischer), titled "Stonewalling - How to turn this frustrating opening into your opponent's Watergate". It is a essentially a tutorial on how to defend as Black against the Stonewall Attack...

The complete Chess Life magazine containing the "Stonewalling" article can be found here.....the article is on pp. 34-36...

(Downloading from the archives is slow, so be patient)...

http://uscf1-nyc1.aodhosting.com/CL-AND-CR-ALL/CL-ALL/1981/1981_12.pdf

Back issues of Chess Life can be downloaded as .pdf files from the United States Chess Federation (USCF) Chess Life and Chess Review Archives here...

https://new.uschess.org/chess-life-digital-archives

 "Stonewalling - How to turn this frustrating opening into your opponent's Watergate", Chess Life Magazine, December 1981, pp.34-36 (for links to the article, see my post above)...

Thanks that's very nice of you. Just a couple of thoughts about other approaches. If black develops the c8 bishop outside the pawn chain it can become a target. White can often gain a move on it to progress his K-side attack. Swapping it off via a6 is a good option and if white tries to prevent that, black has a5, supporting it with the rook too. It takes another three knight moves to get the b knight to where it's commanding e4 and typically it always seems to arrive "just in time". If white tries to circumvent that by playing his opening without Ne5, black can get into a situation where Ne5 can be met with f6, kicking it out.

I had a friend who preferred the Colle, which is the Stonewall but without f4. There, white plays e3 but develops and can force e4. I started off by meeting that with g6 and found that he knew how to attack with the h pawn or the f pawn and I lost a couple. This is before I understood about the Ba6 move, which is also playable against the Colle. Then I started playing a delayed g6. There are other positions where black plays g6 (and perhaps h5) but the f-bishop is on e7, supported by the Qd8 and that can be very powerful. I started winning games again.

Overall, my style seems to have developed where I'm not always in a hurry to develop the c8 bishop and don't mind it stuck behind the pawn chain provided there's a pawn break I can play to extract it. It's like a game-winning secret weapon, which white often forgets about. I'm not too keen on the Larry Evans approach. It's harder to play than he seems to want us to believe. Although my opponent in that game commited himself with 1. d4 2. f4, which he always plays, most do not and they'll play d4, e3, Bd3, maybe even Nf3 before f4 and then Ne5. I'm not sure but if my friend's tactics against an early g6 by black were sound, maybe they would stay in the Colle formation against an early g6 by black and try to play h4 h5 against it.