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How to deflect the wayward queen attack?

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LerX01

Ik how to stop the scholars mate half of it but honestly I'm getting annoyed by this opening. Ik not to move the G pawn (That loses a rook) but any other methods? (BTW to stop the scholars mate imo, in this position you need to move knight to h6)

Uhohspaghettio1

g6 is the simplest and the best. 

According to the computer Qe7 should be enough for equality. if you really don't want to move the g pawn. 

Ethan_Brollier
LerX01 wrote:

Ik how to stop the scholars mate half of it but honestly I'm getting annoyed by this opening. Ik not to move the G pawn (That loses a rook) but any other methods? (BTW to stop the scholars mate imo, in this position you need to move knight to h6)

Here's the full refutation, you'll be fine from here. Hope this helps!



zone_chess

e4-e5 inherently creates these complications where white can get an attack going.

But in your example, g6 is perfectly fine (the knight covers e5?) and the go-to-move.
Then you can basically bounce the queen around looking at Nd4 if Qf3 and then Qd1 is forced bc Nxc2+, or d5 with the discovery.

But the real robust method is to meet e4 with c5, then play Nc6 (the preference of almost all GMs is to develop the queen's knight underneath a pawn to give both pieces on the file their full mobility), and 3...e6 completely wards off the wayward queen and sniper bishop.

The priority then -that is, if no attacks open up- is to take out the sniper. For example Na5 or a6-b5 to Nd4 or Nb4.

Ethan_Brollier
zone_chess wrote:

e4-e5 inherently creates these complications where white can get an attack going.

But in your example, g6 is perfectly fine (the knight covers e5?) and the go-to-move.
Then you can basically bounce the queen around looking at Nd4 if Qf3 and then Qd1 is forced bc Nxc2+, or d5 with the discovery.

But the real robust method is to meet e4 with c5, then play Nc6 (the preference of almost all GMs is to develop the queen's knight underneath a pawn to give both pieces on the file their full mobility), and 3...e6 completely wards off the wayward queen and sniper bishop.

The priority then -that is, if no attacks open up- is to take out the sniper. For example Na5 or a6-b5 to Nd4 or Nb4.

Playing the Sicilian (an entirely different opening) to merely refute the Wayward Queen attack is a terrible idea.

Uhohspaghettio1
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
zone_chess wrote:

e4-e5 inherently creates these complications where white can get an attack going.

But in your example, g6 is perfectly fine (the knight covers e5?) and the go-to-move.
Then you can basically bounce the queen around looking at Nd4 if Qf3 and then Qd1 is forced bc Nxc2+, or d5 with the discovery.

But the real robust method is to meet e4 with c5, then play Nc6 (the preference of almost all GMs is to develop the queen's knight underneath a pawn to give both pieces on the file their full mobility), and 3...e6 completely wards off the wayward queen and sniper bishop.

The priority then -that is, if no attacks open up- is to take out the sniper. For example Na5 or a6-b5 to Nd4 or Nb4.

Playing the Sicilian (an entirely different opening) to merely refute the Wayward Queen attack is a terrible idea.

yeah it's pretty hilarious reasoning! 

The wayward queen attack is terrible for white and allows at LEAST equality. 

Laskersnephew

Why does that stupid attack even have a name?

najdorf96

indeed. In my day, we used to call these types of superficial attacks as, "seeing ghosts". Heh. Also, it used to be the Queen coming out early on the Q-side as the more threatening (in my experience) if not properly dealt with. Go figger these days. It is neat though how they name & categorize mundane things. Cool.

Uhohspaghettio1
najdorf96 wrote:

indeed. In my day, we used to call these types of superficial attacks as, "seeing ghosts". Heh. Also, it used to be the Queen coming out early on the Q-side as the more threatening (in my experience) if not properly dealt with. Go figger these days. It is neat though how they name & categorize mundane things. Cool.

It has another name as well - the Parham Attack, after the great Bernard Parham. 

Check him out... if you dare. 

Alchessblitz

simply 1) e4 e5 2) Bc4 Nc6 3) Qh5 Qe7 4) Nc3 Nf6 5) Qd1 Qd8 and we fall back into a Viennese game :

And beyond throwing moves how do we reason as  "noob" who "knows nothing" :

1) e4 e5

2) Bc4

it's the same logic that the London system, White doesn't want to play with a fianchetto and so he will rather try to put a Bishop on the g8-a2 diagonal because it is a strong diagonal with an impact in the center and "white Bishop" will not be enclosed by the d3-pawn when White plays this move to activate his "black Bishop".

2)...Nc6

In the logic we play rather 2...Nf6 because we develop a Knight on the kingside which will allow in the future to be able to 0-0 more quickly.  

Afterwards, if we plan to play a strategy with 0-0-0 then obviously Nc6 will be more logical but as Black has one move less we prefer in theory to play for a 0-0

3) Qh5

So this is a "noob move" and I say this in relation to the Chessmaster lesson we do at the beginning before we start ranking against bots in the program.

In short Chessmaster lesson ask to control the center in a direct or indirect way, develop its pieces in a harmonious way, rather first the Knights then the Bishops, Castling rather quickly, avoid losing moves by playing several times the same piece, avoid taking out its Queen too early not to lose moves by having it attacked. 

3) Qh5 is justified for a tactical reason, a threat of mate. Here it is so concrete that it becomes simple, I just look at the possibilities I have and choose the solution that seems to me better in relation to a strategic project because to always play with plans and ideas in order to improve one's position and to worsen the opponent's is also part of Chessmaster's recommendations it seems to me. 

So I have 3...Nh6, 3...g6, 3...Qf6, 3...Qe7

a : 3...Nh6 it doesn't seem terrible to put a Knight at the edge of the board and on the natural move 4. d3 the Bishop threatens to take the Knight and perpetuate the same threat. 

b : 3...g6 it forces me to play with a strategy with fianchetto but it's not great because my Bishop in fianchetto will be blocked by my e5 pawn and unless I opt with the desire to play a strategy with fianchetto which can for example lead to some kind of KID attack, it won't be the first choice

c : 3...Qf6 what's annoying is that it upsets my Knight's natural square and that in the future maybe x) Nc3 then x) Nd5

d : 3...Qe7 the advantage is that I threaten to win a move by Nf6 and that I leave the threat then at worst even if I do not find a good move I can always put my Queen back on the initial square because I lose a move but my opponent also lost a move with his Queen.

In conclusion 3...Qe7 is the most logical and natural move compared to the different possibilities I have and therefore it seems more normal to opt for this move.

najdorf96

indeed. Heh 😅@Uhohspaghettio1~er...nah...ty...but no! ✌🏼

the53414539
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

g6 is the simplest and the best.

According to the computer Qe7 should be enough for equality. if you really don't want to move the g pawn.

are you trying to kill us all, literally g6 loses a rook to Qxe5+