How To Handle This Grunfeld Line?

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KeSetoKaiba

I've been reconsidering how I meet the Grunfeld opening. I am interested in playing the White side of this position, but not sure which of my two variations are worth studying deeper. Perhaps a similar third option? The juncture begins at move 9 (all book moves) with Bc4 what I've been playing but not entirely sure which route fits my play-style best after this...

Shizuko

I... Probably shouldn't answer this.

jetoba

You will have to check to see what you feel comfortable with.  I play the knight to e2 instead of f3 and Be3 instead of Rb1 (castling if Black plays Qa5).  But I am also aggressive enough to sometimes play f3, g4, h4 with an attack and interesting chances for both sides (Kf2 will connect the rooks and Qd2 will support the e3 bishop).

Your mileage may vary.

 

Nerwal

The two lines given are proof enough the bishop belongs to e2 and not c4 in this line.

Chushoudelu

probably castles, there isnèt really another option after move 9.

KeSetoKaiba
Nerwal wrote:

The two lines given are proof enough the bishop belongs to e2 and not c4 in this line.

Interesting. What would a common continuation after 9. Be2 look like and what are the main ideas? Or is it simply "develop" pieces and simply logical chess from there?

jamesstack

I played in a grunfeld tournament on the ICCF a while back against a bunch of 2000+ players. I lost every game but ran into some interesting lines. One of them is similar to the line you posted here. White sacrifices the c pawn to trade the dark square bishops and gets a good attack. I think even if black defends well white has a winning ending. In hindsight I think black would be best advised not to take the c pawn but play Ne5 instead.

 

BryanCFB
jetoba wrote:

You will have to check to see what you feel comfortable with.  I play the knight to e2 instead of f3 and Be3 instead of Rb1 (castling if Black plays Qa5).  But I am also aggressive enough to sometimes play f3, g4, h4 with an attack and interesting chances for both sides (Kf2 will connect the rooks and Qd2 will support the e3 bishop).

Your mileage may vary.

 

Yes, I believe the knight is better on e2 than on f3 in this main line Grunfeld because the Bg4 pin can be rather annoying.

harriw

In this line 9. Be2 is played as it would be better placed there in both of these lines. After 9. Be2 Black has a number of moves to consider, 9. ... Nc6, where 10. d5 Ne5 11. Nxe5 Bxe5 is the continuation, 9. ... cxd4 10. cxd4 Qa5+ 11. Bd2 Qxa2 12. 0-0, which is one of the most played lines in the Grünfeld (at master level White seems to have the advantage despite being a pawn down), the third line is 9. ... b6, where 10. 0-0 Bb7 is the main continuation. If you definitely want to play 9. Bc4 I think that d5 is a proper continuation as the idea of 8. Rb1 is that you have the chance to advance the pawn without getting forked by Bxc3+. Then you hope that the pawn center will be strong enough to compensate for the sacrificed pawn and Black has the task of building a blockade.

In the 7. Bc4 line White develops the knight to e2 to avoid Bg4 and there the bishop has to be developed first. And in general many of the Grünfeld lines are sharp.

KeSetoKaiba
jamesstack wrote:

I played in a grunfeld tournament on the ICCF a while back against a bunch of 2000+ players. I lost every game but ran into some interesting lines. One of them is similar to the line you posted here. White sacrifices the c pawn to trade the dark square bishops and gets a good attack. I think even if black defends well white has a winning ending. In hindsight I think black would be best advised not to take the c pawn but play Ne5 instead.

Thanks for sharing. This is an interesting approach that is creative at the very least grin.png

rileyk121
he
KeSetoKaiba
harriw wrote:

In this line 9. Be2 is played as it would be better placed there in both of these lines. After 9. Be2 Black has a number of moves to consider, 9. ... Nc6, where 10. d5 Ne5 11. Nxe5 Bxe5 is the continuation, 9. ... cxd4 10. cxd4 Qa5+ 11. Bd2 Qxa2 12. 0-0, which is one of the most played lines in the Grünfeld (at master level White seems to have the advantage despite being a pawn down), the third line is 9. ... b6, where 10. 0-0 Bb7 is the main continuation. If you definitely want to play 9. Bc4 I think that d5 is a proper continuation as the idea of 8. Rb1 is that you have the chance to advance the pawn without getting forked by Bxc3+. Then you hope that the pawn center will be strong enough to compensate for the sacrificed pawn and Black has the task of building a blockade.

In the 7. Bc4 line White develops the knight to e2 to avoid Bg4 and there the bishop has to be developed first. And in general many of the Grünfeld lines are sharp.

Thank you for your valued insight into these lines. A friend of mine plays the Grunfeld Defense with the Black pieces a lot (not why I created this thread though), but I've only ever had this from White's perspective (except for maybe a few casual games) grin.png

Kroork
Nice
Nerwal
KeSetoKaiba a écrit :
Nerwal wrote:

The two lines given are proof enough the bishop belongs to e2 and not c4 in this line.

Interesting. What would a common continuation after 9. Be2 look like and what are the main ideas? Or is it simply "develop" pieces and simply logical chess from there?

 

harriw gave the beginning of the main lines (just the beginning really, White's difficult choices come right after). But they have all been worked out almost til the end and it's not possible to play simple chess from there, White needs to have all the details worked out beforehand to get a chance to have a game. At the first inaccuracy Black equalizes by force and the game is a flat draw and even with theory Black eventually levels the play.

ponz111

Actually the  Grunfeld and the Ruy Lopez and even The Ponziani are draws when both sides play without error.tongue.png

Nerwal
ponz111 a écrit :

Actually the  Grunfeld and the Ruy Lopez and even The Ponziani are draws when both sides play without error.

 All mainstream openings are draws but the Grünfeld is something else. It is the most direct attempt to make a draw by force using piece play. When you study the lines for White it's really a fight to get something going, usually you're not even looking at getting a slight stable advantage, you're looking at a way to keep the game alive.

AvroVanquish
ponz111 wrote:

Actually the  Grunfeld and the Ruy Lopez and even The Ponziani are draws when both sides play without error.

 

We shouldn't worry about this much I think, as we are not 2700+ and error is bound to happen. 

Chushoudelu

Everything is a draw with best play unless its a loss with best play for white tongue.png