I hate Fried Liver

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ErrantDeeds

Below is a game I played not so long ago. I warn you now, it's a tactical car crash...

The horrific nature of the game notwithstanding (I can almost hear you all wince), it does highlight a problem I have. To my lasting shame, I panic at the Fried Liver. I'm pretty certain that it's not entirely sound for white, and that with accurate play, black can get out of the opening with an advantage, but looking back over my old games, it's amazing how many times I've fluffed it, an embarressing fact for such a patzerish opening. I seem to panic, and my position collapses. I don't intend to stop playing ...e5 as a response to 1.e4, as I like the spanish/scotch/KG etc. I just need to find the proper resources when this is thrown at me. From where can I learn the most accurate lines for black?

Scarblac

Firstly, this is not the Fried Liver. The Fried Liver is the line that goes 4...d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7; if either side deviates earlier, it's not a Fried Liver. This is just a Two Knights' Defence with 4.Ng5.

I don't think 5.Bb3 is a move you'll find anything about in theoretical works, I've only ever seen 5.exd5.

Which means that it's time to do that other stuff -- you know, calculate, search for tactics, etc. Play chess. The fact that you played 7...Nd4?? shows you weren't doing the basic of the basic -- check all checks, captures and threats your opponent has after your intended move. So that's what you need to start doing first.

After 5...h6 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.Qf3, your both have a knight hanging, and White threatens 8.Qxf7#. If you exchange knights, after hxg5 Bxd5 or Qxg5 Bxd5 White still has annoying threats against f7 and c6. If your knight moves, say 7...Nf6, he still has a double attack on f7. Tricky position!

I suspect Black has to sacrifice a pawn with something like 7...hxg5 8.Bxd5 Be6 9.Bxc6+ bxc6 10.Qxc6+ Bd7, hoping for faster development. I wonder what someone who actually plays these lines will say :-)

In general, you can also play 3...Bc5 instead of 3...Nf6. I think it's a slightly safer line.

marvellosity

I think the 3...Nf6 4.Ng5 line is a really fun one to play as Black. After 4...d5 5.exd5 Black should respond 5...Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 etc (the mainline) and generally ends up having sacrificed a pawn (or even two) for great development and space. As none (or very few :D) of us are masters, this initiative is really worth more than a pawn in practical play.

Before I switched to the Sicilian, I had a massive scoring rate (80%+) with this line as Black.

PrawnEatsPrawn
rich wrote:

I normally don't like e4 openings that's why I always play d4. And I have a few responses to e4 but I mostly play the Scandinavian. On move three instead of Nf6 maybe you should start playing h6.


 3 .... h6 is a really dumb/passive move.... good old rich and his "masterful" advice, drawn from a bottomless well it would seem.

Scarblac

@marvellosity: yes, but in this case White plays 5.Bb3!?. It's a very rare move so it's probably just wrong, but without board nearby I can't figure out what's wrong with it after the logical 5...h6 6.exd5 Nxd5 7.Qf3!?.

shoop2

Just to note, another fun alternative is to respond to Ng5 with ...Bc5!?, in which black plans to respond to Nxf7 with Bxf2+, launching an immediate mating counterattack without much regard for material.  Black scores fairly well in this line, if I recall correctly, and many players won't know how to respond to it well.

Scarblac
rich wrote:
PrawnEatsPrawn wrote:
rich wrote:

I normally don't like e4 openings that's why I always play d4. And I have a few responses to e4 but I mostly play the Scandinavian. On move three instead of Nf6 maybe you should start playing h6.


 3 .... h6 is a really dumb/passive move.... good old rich and his "masterful" advice, drawn from a bottomless well it would seem.


 But it would stop the fried liver how is that bad?


 Because it costs a full move. That is too much.

Tricklev

If you wan't to avoid the Two knights defence Rich 3... Bc5 is a better bet than h6.

marvellosity

Yes, I know Scarblac - I was just saying that the 3...Nf6 4.Ng5 is nothing to be scared of, as played properly the resulting positions should favour Black, pragmatically speaking.

With regards to 5.Bb3, an initial glance at the position suggests 5...Nxe4 - an attack on d5 is removed, you take a pawn, and the g5 knight is under attack.

Scarblac

Uhm, yes. I was just looking at the position later on. 5...Nxe4 seems quite good :-)

rooperi

That's my favourite opening when playing Black. Really not much to fear, I think

lobosolo21

I like very much "The Fried Liver Attack" with Black or White,especially when I can checkmate my oponent in the 8th move.,like 8.Qxf7++.But u passed it up.

CJ_effort

um

5bb3?!!?!

CJ_effort

why not play the pawn sac with na5

lobosolo21

8.Qxf7++! woohoo!

Anatoly_Sergievsky

If you don't like the Fried Liver, try the playing the Traxler when the chance arrives- it's definitely NOT the most accurate line of play (if they capture f7 with the bishop for example, it ruins all the fun.) ...but it certainly makes for exciting chess.

ErrantDeeds

Ha! I'm playing the traxler. Looks like fun.

marvellosity

Errant, if you're interested there is a Traxler Analysis group with loads of good analysis for that opening.

chessoholicalien

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/anti-fried-liver

wetpaste

my favorite line in this two nights with Ng5 is the Ulvestad, as follows: