I hate Patzer opening. (early Queen) Best way to defend?

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JackOfAllHobbies

I hate getting messed up as black by this opening.  I want to learn to play it as WHITE.



Shahrovsky

Study the games of Nakamura. Maybe you won't understand the complex concepts but at least see how he plays the opening. If the best player in the entire United States plays the opening, it has to be playable. (I personally like chesstempo.com as database of choice but anything should suffice)

AKAL1

Just play Bg7 and you're fine

JackOfAllHobbies
AKAL1 wrote:

Just play Bg7 and you're fine

So, basically, I stick to this response and be even, and not screwed up?



Diakonia

You have multiple choices:

3...g6

3...Qe7

3...Qe6

3...Nh6

What you played is perfectly fine. 

Arawn_of_Annuvin
Yeah I think you had it right 5...Bg7 probably would have been better. After this I imagine you just continue with normal development with d6 and castles short.
Diakonia
 
Follow Opening Principles, and watch out for simple tactics.  Its your opponent that will pay for not following the opening principles. 
tmkroll

There's nothing wrong with g6 and Bg7. It's not, "getting your pawns messed up," it's a fianchetto with tempo against the Queen. Normally it takes two moves to do this in the opening. Here you get to play g6 for free because White being silly. When you do this you do have to keep the dark squared Bishop on the Kingside or your position is full of holes. Where you left off analysis in #4 would just be a normal position if White's Knight and Queen were swapped or the Queen were still on d1 and the other Knight on d2 not blocking the c-pawn, but White's misplaced pieces mean Black is equal already. If you can actually get away with swapping off the Bishop like that Black is probably even a tiny bit better. That's fine for Black. You might worry about your g7 Bishop being blocked by your own e-pawn, but look at KID games as well as the Bronstein Variation of the Spainish Game. Black can play for an eventually f5 break. If the center opens the Bishop becomes good. If not, Black can launch a kindside pawn storm and the bad Bishop won't matter if White is checkmated.

However if you don't like to play with a fiancetto 3... Qe7 is also a good move.

2... Nf6 3... Be7 and castle quickly gaining a huge amount of time against the misplaced Queen is also a good plan and a perfectly sound gambit.

There's a lot of good ways to play with Black when White plays the Queen out for no reason.

Azeem40
Diakonia wrote:
 
 
Follow Opening Principles, and watch out for simple tactics.  Its your opponent that will pay for not following the opening principles. 

I hate it when I get my queen captured due to an oversight, lol. I had it happen against my brother.

tmkroll

Also I'm pretty sure c3 where people are playing it in this thread doesn't quite work. Black can play something like d5 and e4. There's a reason why Ne2 is played that position and not c3.

Shamandalie1234

just develop your pieces and don't give them away.

As easy as that.

JackOfAllHobbies

I HATED the g6 move, but totally overlooked the fiancetto bishop move to restore the king pawns.  Doing that makes this opening much more palatable.   Plus, I have a tempo on white, putting Black in a good position, not a bad one.

Thanks for the feeedback

Azeem40
tmkroll wrote:

Also I'm pretty sure c3 where people are playing it in this thread doesn't quite work. Black can play something like d5 and e4. There's a reason why Ne2 is played that position and not c3.

Ne2 is checkmate after Qxf7.

tmkroll
Azeem40 wrote:
tmkroll wrote:

Also I'm pretty sure c3 where people are playing it in this thread doesn't quite work. Black can play something like d5 and e4. There's a reason why Ne2 is played that position and not c3.

Ne2 is checkmate after Qxf7.

This is the position I'm talking about. Ne2 is played to prevent Nd4. Attempting to play c3 instead can be met by a quick d5 with advantage if I'm remembering it right.

tmkroll

Actually I think it's Na5 first, but anyway there is no checkmate and c3 is too slow. Ne2 is the most popular move.

Azeem40
tmkroll wrote:

Actually I think it's Na5 first, but anyway there is no checkmate and c3 is too slow. Ne2 is the most popular move.

I got confused. Ignore what I said lol.

tmkroll

Well I wasn't being terribly clear. That's why I put in the diagram, really it only takes a second. Even better would be to make the diagram right and remember the analysis and/or check it before posting at all so I wasn't confused myself about when d5 was good but nobody's perfect. I wanted ot mention it because if the whole c3, d4 plan worked in that position it would be promising for White so it's important to explore why it fails when Black plays accurately.

KingMeTaco666

start playing sicillian defense instead .

and technically speaking black now has the advantage.

JackOfAllHobbies
I just got DESTROYED by the Patzer. 
Holy shit.
 
Azeem40
Fiveofswords wrote:

i always just play 2...nf6

Yeah, that's a good defense to it.