c3 Nc6 Nf3 Bg4
very good line
I ranked all 20 responses to e4 for black
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iceyww wrote:
The is my ranking of all the defenses against e4
20. B5
19. F6
18. Na6
17. G5
16. Nh6
15. F5
14. H5
13. A5
12. H6
11. A6
10. B6
9. Nf6
8. D5
7. Nc6
6. D6
5. G7
4. C6
3. E6
2. E5
1. C5
Perfect top four, I would just put scandi a bit higher and f5 a bit lower
angryspacevoid wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
angryspacevoid wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
In the caro cant
- white has a larger center with more/quicker development
- white has a space advantage
- white can easily hold an advantage the whole game
- black is usually left passive
- blacks light squared bishop is typically a liability and will be kicked around the whole opening/middlegame
- the best black can play for is a draw
white can also easily attack black without having to risk much
(I'm responding to this and to anyone and any other posts outlining the negatives of the Caro)
For one, tell me those positions are easier to play for white honestly.
For two, the 1600+ lichess database for blitz and longer has white at 47% win rate and black with 48%. Practically, the Caro is on par or at least very, very similar in level to the Sicilian
dont give inferior lines for white
you guys are dumb smh this is why you actually understand the line
dxc5 is bad because of e6 Be3 Nd7
however c3 is the mainline and its kind of interesting
caro in general is hard to play for a win though white is often pressing in a lot of lines
If you wouldn’t mind clarifying, who exactly are you calling dumb in this scenario? I can’t tell.
Actually, many of your comments are vague or incorrect . Who is dxc5 bad for? Black, presumably, but then you go on to argue that c3 is the mainline and is interesting. No it is not, first of all, it’s a distant third most common move and second, White scores horribly in it.
ok fine its bad for white ok Nf3 is another line i forgot however c3 is still better than dxc5 due to the line i mentioned above
Yeah I completely agree that 4. dxc5 is bad for White. However, 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. dxc5 is much much better for White.
4. c3 is still the worst no matter what though, even perhaps worse than 4. dxc5. It completely justifies the Botvinnik-Carls.
PawnHurricanes wrote:
Dxc5 is the best move?
Yes and no. Here’s a board hopefully explaining it.
Jun 7, 2023
0
#647
What on earth are you talking about??? Give the best variations for both sides:
PawnHurricanes wrote:
The line after Nf3 is showing why it’s good for black.
Consider, then, why White scores 48/30/22 from 4… cxd4. White is still doing better because after moving the c-pawn THREE TIMES, all it has done is allow White’s knight an incredibly active outpost in the middle of the board.
And while we’re on the topic of not showing the best moves for both sides… after cxd4 Nxe4 Nc6 why are we playing Bb5? c4 is better, heck White can even play Nxc6 bxc6 Bd3 and ask Black what he’s trying to do with that LSB.
Jun 7, 2023
0
#651
And Ba6. As for c4, e6 is just fine. I don’t know why you’re arguing with an engine?
Jun 7, 2023
0
#652
I’m a Caro player, and dxc5 is the line I fear the most. Just putting it out there.
PawnHurricanes wrote:
And Ba6. As for c4, e6 is just fine. I don’t know why you’re arguing with an engine?
White’s better to much better in the line you gave against Nxc6, and c4 e6 is merely the start of a set of lines where White is still better with best okay from both sides.
I was under the impression that I wasn’t arguing with an engine, merely discussing lines with a fellow Botvinnik-Carls player. The discovery that I’m not is mildly disappointing.
Jun 9, 2023
0
#655
Back to the wing gambit, look at this game where White, who was rated 218 lower than black, almost won using the wing gambit. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/master/13382861?tab=review
White had higher opening accuracy even though black was the ultimate victor.
Jun 9, 2023
0
#656
Move 10, 11 etc he had a humongous lead in development, black had just moved it's queen back having barely anything out, and bishops that were blocked in. Totally worth a pawn for white. I think it was the rook blunder at the end that did white in.
Jun 9, 2023
0
#657
This is a better example. Black was rated 75 higher and still lost. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/master/16420903?tab=review
On a pratical level wing gambit can be very hard to deal with as long as white is comfortably versed in it.
Jun 9, 2023
0
#658
Ultimate-trashtalker wrote:
I agree. The wing gambit is also good against the French but mostly as a blitz weapon
That makes sense...I rarely play with less than 10 minutes, but if I did I would play the wing gambit every time.
and an easy win