Is Nxc3 a bad move?? I find it as a loss of time from black what do you think?

continuing from moonie's diagram, now that black has blocked c5 it's a good time to play d4 and e4, ie 10 d4 Bb7 11 e4 and now i guess that black should just play e5 (?)

just feels like a worse grunfeld to me, though i guess that black might be ok.

see you are right tht the position is different bt hw we call the idea as the different move the ngt again comes frm g8 to take the ngt on c3 and the pawns there are on c3 , d4 and e3 as i had in game , of course the position is differnt and the bishop is bttr on d3 thn on g2 with this pawn structure bt we can always manuver the bishop to d3 frm g2 it looks slow bt i wonder till thn wht black can do ? may be BxN frm me was wrong bttr was Bd3 looks a good move there .

So in order to make use of the black tempoloss with the manouvre Nf6-d5-c3 you play the manouvre g3-bg2-bf1-bd3 ... that sounds wrong in so many ways. 

black is more or less forced to play c5 thn Nc6 it was a similar mistake done by Korchnoi i dnt remember his opponent in grunfeld he played Nc6 frst and delayed c5 which almst costed him the game , it is frm kasparovs book on my great predecessors but after tht korchnoi always stuck to frst c5 may be.

yeah looks a bit strange bt at least white doesnt gift a strong center to black lol and may be if my dark squared bishop was a bttr peice it was going to be  very hard for black to draw the game .

@love: It is possible but you get kind of normal grunfeld positions. I am not a grunfeld player but i see no big disadvantage for black. He can play his knight to a5 play c5 and he is okay i think. 

same was korchnoi's idea to play Na5 thn c5 but later on he writes it is more or less passive frst c5 thn Nbd7 is bttr Ngt on a5 stops Bc4 in some positions bt with bishop on g2 it makes lesser sense .

Well that manouvre is not going to be it. Best chance of advantage might be love's setup. 

it's not very advisable to say what engine shows in the first few moves. Until the era of quantum-machines. They also suggest 2.Bf4 after 1.d4 d5. Who play this?!

@kings that is true it makes less sense then in normal grunfeld systems to put the knight on a5 but then again the bishop on g2 also makes less sense so it evens out roughly .. I do agree it is not the happy happy black grunfeld setup but neither is white. 

yes she was more correct and was the best way to get good enuf advantage aftr Nxc3?!

and black is still okay there. In other words Nd5xc3 was no blunder. 

thte right may be Na5 doesnt give really good confidence bt still at least Bishop on g2 can be activated vid d3 but it is more difficult to activate on a5 i belive u agree here just 2 mves bishop is on d3 and i wonder where the ngt is going.

of course Nxc3 is nt losing bt u play 10 such moves which doesnt lose the immediately , u lose the game and to draw u gotta work hard as black did here  

bt overall it was a good discussion thnkz to evryone.

yeah, i can't claim to know the answers, but there was a time when i played grunfeld-like systems exclusively when possible, and my experiences with the black side of the "anglo-grunfeld" (and i tried many lines) were mostly filled with pain.

in general, i just found the positions dry and hard to play compared to the "main grunfeld". that said, that might be more of a comment about me than about the actual positions.

u gotta experiment with different openings in chess to enjy the game and get some new ideas , this is hw u r gonna love it more and more..:) and i always trying to find some new ideas frm some or the other place either by games with higer rated players or frm GM games or my own experiments.

N*c3 must be a bad move,as white has a piece developed whereas black has not developed any of his piece...moreover black must not cut because he is losing a good knight vs a bad

@Ravi: Please read the entire discussion before making silly comments with no meaning. I explained quite a few time why it is in fact not a bad move

Second knights are not bishops. There is no such thing as a bad knight versus good knight only a well placed knight versus a badly placed knight but at this stage in the game that does not really valid

it would valid black has well placed knight and white has jst still developed it