Is Pirc like the KID?

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am a newbie when it comes to openings. Does the Pirc and the KID lead to a similar game? To me it seems so as black lets white occupy e4 and d4 while playing d6, g6, Bg7, Nf6, 0-0. Are they basically the same opening like the hippo defence leads to a similar game no matter if white starts with e4 or d4?

The Pirc is a poor man's KID. Just think about the first two moves - in the Pirc white has a perfect centre: d4 and e4. In the KID he has c4 and d4. The c4 pawn is additionally blocking his bishop from its most natural attacking position of c4. 

The Pirc usually has an open centre from the start while the KID usually has a closed one, so the character of the game is usually quite different. The KID is known for bizarre mating attacks that come out of nowhere, due in part to the closed centre, even strong computers regularly get confused by it and calculate wrong. 

They are NOTHING alike.

Just because Black's first 5 moves are the same does not make either opening at all similar.

Chess is played with 32 pieces, not 16.  White's piece placement matters too!

Compare the "Classical" Variation of both:

Pirc - 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 O-O

King's Indian - 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O

In the Pirc, White has no pawn on c4.  His pawn is on c2.  He can, later on, move the c3-knight and play c3 to guard d4.  There is no permanent weakness on d4.  He has not played c4, and so Black can play moves like ...c6, ...b5, and ...b4, trying to dislodge the knight from c3, the only piece covering the e-pawn.  This is typical Classical Pirc strategy.  You go after the c3-knight in order to attack e4.

In the King's Indian, White has played c4.  With c4 played and e4 played, d4 is permanently weak for White.  Not the d4-pawn.  It can always go to d5.  The d4-square.  Black therefore proceeds to play for complete control of d4.  He would love to get a knight that cannot be dislodged from the square into there.  At the same time, he cannot play for b5 and b4 with a white pawn on c4.  So trying to attack the e4-pawn is frivolous.  Instead, with ...e5 pushed, White blocks the e4-pawn, and hence White's light-squared Bishop.  If that Bishop is useless, and Black owns the dark squares, it becomes no contest in the center, unlike the Pirc, and instead becomes a White attack on the Queenside vs a Black attack on the Kingside.

Two COMPLETELY different openings where ONLY BLACK'S PIECES are placed the same after 5 moves.  White's structure is different, which makes the follow-up for both sides different, and therefore the entire strategy is different.

The Pirc isn't even a "Poor Man's King's Indian" as wrongfully stated previously in the thread.

The Pirc is about as similar to the King's Indian as Carrots are to Pepperoni Pizza.  Both are food, that is about it!

Ok thank you, the type of answers I was looking for.

Completely different, but KID = Pirc up to fantasmagoric subtleties à la ThrillerFan.

For example, white can play Pirc with 3. Bd3 or 3.Nd2 instead of Nc3 and continue with c4 obtaining KID.

Yes, Pirc is like the King's Indian Defence. The difference is the white pawn at either c4 or c2. Ideas are similar especially the preparation of ...e5. Play is similar too: white gets an advantage in space and black gets a cramped game with opportinities for a counterattack. Pirc has been played in World Championship matches Spassky-Fischer and Karpov-Korchnoi. King's Indian Defence has been played in world championship matches Karpov-Kasparov.

This is totally incorrect!

The ideas are not the same at all.  See my previous post in this thread.

Even at the 10,000 foot level, they are nothing alike.  In the Kings Indian, Black fights for control and occupancy of d4 (by a knight preferably).  In the Pirc, it is an attack on e4 via disrupting the Knight on c3.

Just because Black's first 5 moves are the same means nothing.  The game is based on 32 pieces, not 16.

The French and QGD are not the same!

The Slav and Caro are not the same

The Modern Defense (no c4 by White) and the Averbakh (White has played c4) are not the same either!

Come on, KID = Modern = Pirc = Robatsch, up to some nuances.

False!

When U say "false", my Cartesian friend, I become sure that it's true.

Thrillerfan we saw what you said the first time - what you say isn't gospel, it's regularly inaccurate in fact. Nobody is in any danger of missing your posts.  

Why do you think that your posts matter more than anyone else? They are just bigger than most posts and sperging out. 

I never said mine are more important, but I will point out false information.  Everything spewed out from 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 not being the "Sicilian Defense, French Variation" to the KID and Pirc not being anything alike to those saying that there is no virus and face masks are useless being full of bleep!

The KID, Modern, and Pirc are nothing alike, and the Robatsch is merely another name for either the Pirc or the Modern but I do not recall which.

If you do not want to be called out, do not post false information.  You do not see me calling out stuff that is true.  Like threads on "What is your favorite opening?", if your favorite is the Grunfeld, you do not see me calling that poster out as a liar or claim the French is all mightier.  That is an opinion post.

But to say something like The KID and Pirc are similar or WKe6, WPe5, BKe8 is sometimes a draw would be called out by me if I see it.  WKe6, WPe5, BKe8 is ALWAYS a win for White, no matter who is to move!

Speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and you won't be called out!

It's not like that at all, but whatever.