Is the Benko gambit refuted?

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Sea_TurtIe

when you gotta speak in english,french, and spanish you tend to forget how to spell

Sea_TurtIe

i belive that the only way for black to continue to fight is to play Qb4 before white can go Nb5

also the fianchetto variation gives black too easy of a game

Sea_TurtIe

also putting the king on h2 variation is too slow as black gets his plans and ideas faster

null_day

this chapter of Benko Gambit theory disagree with you https://openings101.org/benko-gambit/TPJrym96

Sea_TurtIe

utlimate trashtalker i have gone through dozens of master games i know what im talking about

Sea_TurtIe

they typically dont know the top lines (unlike what ive found) and allow black counterplay

Sea_TurtIe
null_day wrote:

this chapter of Benko Gambit theory disagree with you https://openings101.org/benko-gambit/TPJrym96

looked through it, it was not very accurate

also having to sacrifice 3 pawns seems quite unsound

Mazetoskylo
Sea_TurtIe wrote

looked through it, it was not very accurate

Can you give us your own "very accurate" lines?

Please do it, we need a good laugh.

Sea_TurtIe
Mazetoskylo wrote:
Sea_TurtIe wrote

looked through it, it was not very accurate

Can you give us your own "very accurate" lines?

Please do it, we need a good laugh.

  • move order was inaccurate
  • Qa5 is typically better than Qb6
  • Qb4 is played to stop Nb5
  • analysis could of have better
Sea_TurtIe

@Mazetoskylo

i doubt you know anything about the benko

Sea_TurtIe
Mazetoskylo
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
Mazetoskylo wrote:
Sea_TurtIe wrote

looked through it, it was not very accurate

Can you give us your own "very accurate" lines?

Please do it, we need a good laugh.

  • move order was inaccurate
  • Qa5 is typically better than Qb6
  • Qb4 is played to stop Nb5
  • analysis could of have better

12...Qa5 isn't better than Qb6, as the whole Qa5-b4 idea does not contain a threat against the b2 pawn, and the knight can eventually land at b5 at his leisure. What can you do after say 12...Qa5 13.Bd2 Qb4 14.Re1?

The only sane thing is retreating, and you have just lost precious time while not forcing white to play a harmful move.

And of course after 12...Qb6 13.Qe2 the move Qb4 doesn't make much sense, again. The best plan is 13...Rfb8, alike in the study at openings101. The b5 knight is not a big annoyance because of the ...Ne8-c7 plan. There is no need to waste time preventing a move which can be effectively countered, it's really that simple.

The only omission of the openings101 study is that it does not mention a remarkable ...Qa6-Nb6 idea, which is probably even more effective than the ...Ne5 stuff (which is OK, in any case).

Sea_TurtIe

the idea is to pressure e4 and not allow the c3 knight to move, and Qb4 takes space and could help c4 or Nb6-c4

the goal is not to take the b2 pawn

Mazetoskylo
Sea_TurtIe wrote:

the idea is to pressure e4 and not allow the c3 knight to move, and Qb4 takes space and could help c4 or Nb6-c4

the goal is not to take the b2 pawn

Can you show how the hell Black presses against e4 after Re1? I see nothing other than going back to b7, and then trying some other desperate way to create counterplay.

Sea_TurtIe
Mazetoskylo wrote:
Sea_TurtIe wrote:

the idea is to pressure e4 and not allow the c3 knight to move, and Qb4 takes space and could help c4 or Nb6-c4

the goal is not to take the b2 pawn

Can you show how the hell Black presses against e4 after Re1? I see nothing other than going back to b7, and then trying some other desperate way to create counterplay.

Qb4 is a good way to attack/pressure e4 in some move orders, just not the one you gave

null_day
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
null_day wrote:

this chapter of Benko Gambit theory disagree with you https://openings101.org/benko-gambit/TPJrym96

looked through it, it was not very accurate

also having to sacrifice 3 pawns seems quite unsound

could you provide "not very accurate" position, and your refutation? because I don't see refutation of Benko.

null_day
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
Mazetoskylo wrote:
Sea_TurtIe wrote

looked through it, it was not very accurate

Can you give us your own "very accurate" lines?

Please do it, we need a good laugh.

  • move order was inaccurate
  • Qa5 is typically better than Qb6
  • Qb4 is played to stop Nb5
  • analysis could of have better

We talk about white trying to refute Benko. Qb6 is the best, disagree? refute it, provide variation.

Sea_TurtIe

is this worth losing 2 pawns?

Sea_TurtIe

this is what the openings101 thing showed

black can do better

Sea_TurtIe

oh i read your comment wrong