Is the Fischer Sozin Attack Busted?

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Avatar of Rat1960

#45, @blueemu. We have studied the same chess when it comes to the Sicilian.
I recognised the game in a heartbeat.
I remember in a tournament playing 7. ... Qb6 and the guy wimped on me with 8. Nb3.
He got the shock of his life when the game sort of transposed to a Browne variation and I sacrificed my g-pawn and won. Not quite like your king on d6 with pawns no where to be seen but same can black do that and live feel.

Avatar of TwoMove

Fischer's favorite Bc4 is as least as good as a3, which elite players have tried in recent tournaments. 

Ragozin is currently quite popular in GM chess, for example Aronian plays it a lot, and it is Hou's main 1.d4 defence. It is one of those openings which never filtered down to club player chess much, for some reason.

Avatar of Optimissed

Did they have umbrellas? If so, they were Bulgarians.

 

Avatar of BronsteinPawn

@urk.

Have you heard about f4-f5, not as easy as you would want to blunt that bishop on b3.

Avatar of Optimissed

I don't believe the Sozin's any good, objectively. But when players put their B on c4, even though I have a pawn on e6 and f7, I know I'm always in danger. They can play f4-f5 and try to weaken my pawns. Especially if I've played a6 & b5 and then put my B on b7, this weakens e6 and I have to be very careful. So obviously the Sozin has sting but provided black makes counterplay in the centre and the q-side, all should be well and the Sozin Bishop can be blocked out of the game. It can become a weakness itself.

Avatar of MergedZamasu
Optimissed wrote:

I don't believe the Sozin's any good, objectively. But when players put their B on c4, even though I have a pawn on e6 and f7, I know I'm always in danger. They can play f4-f5 and try to weaken my pawns. Especially if I've played a6 & b5 and then put my B on b7, this weakens e6 and I have to be very careful. So obviously the Sozin has sting but provided black makes counterplay in the centre and the q-side, all should be well and the Sozin Bishop can be blocked out of the game. It can become a weakness itself.

 

I definitely appreicate everyone's honesty...

Avatar of AngryPuffer

bumping this because

im having an issue with early Na5 lines in the sozin

why is this inaccurate/not played?

Avatar of blueemu

Defending against the Fischer-Sozin Attack:

A Heroic Defense in the Sicilian Najdorf - Kids, don't try this at home! - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Avatar of blueemu
Ultimate-trashtalker wrote:

Too hard to play najdorf

It was hard to play without abandoning my comfort zone, yes.

But that's how you learn and grow.

Avatar of Optimissed
AngryPuffer wrote:

bumping this because

im having an issue with early Na5 lines in the sozin

why is this inaccurate/not played?

Don't see why that's an issue. It's inaccurate because white can simply play Bd3 and black's a move down.

Avatar of AngryPuffer

woah i can speak agian

Avatar of AngryPuffer

but i was talking about after white plays Bb3

Avatar of AngryPuffer
Avatar of Optimissed
AngryPuffer wrote:

but i was talking about after white plays Bb3

White wouldn't play Bb3 after ... Na5 because it makes sense of ...Na5..

Avatar of Optimissed

I think the Sozin's bad. I even thought it was bad when Fischer introduced it and I didn't know any openings back then, but having to play Bb3 to avoid the fork trick is bad on first principles. I suppose maybe after ...e6 Bb3 ... Na5, white's best might be to check on a4 to try to take advantage of black's misplaced knight, but it doesn't look great for white.

Avatar of Optimissed

I only play 1. d4. It's a good opening when you're on form. It can be really bad if you're not.

Avatar of AngryPuffer
Optimissed wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:

but i was talking about after white plays Bb3

White wouldn't play Bb3 after ... Na5 because it makes sense of ...Na5..

im talking about this

Avatar of blueemu

Look at the advantages and drawbacks of Na5.

Advantages:

1) It trades off the White Bishop on b3, for a Knight.

2) It clears the b7-e4 diagonal for the (eventual) Black Bishop on b7.

Disadvantages:

1) It loses a clear tempo (a Knight moves three times to trade for a Bishop that moved twice).

2) It exchanges one of Black's more influential pieces (that Knight should be heading for c4).

3) It moves White's a-Pawn to b3, where it controls the important c4 square and shields the weakness on b2.

4) It opens the a-file, making b7-b5 more difficult to arrange without simply dropping the Pawn to N(d4)xb5 (Black's a-Pawn is pinned).

5) Black gives up some of his central control and leaves White's d4-Knight unchallenged.

Avatar of Optimissed
AngryPuffer wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:

but i was talking about after white plays Bb3

White wouldn't play Bb3 after ... Na5 because it makes sense of ...Na5..

im talking about this

I know you are so what about it? Doesn't seem great for white does it.

Avatar of Optimissed
blueemu wrote:

Look at the advantages and drawbacks of Na5.

Advantages:

1) It trades off the White Bishop on b3, for a Knight.
But white can play a check.

2) It clears the b7-e4 diagonal for the (eventual) Black Bishop on b7.
Yes, that's a bad reason though ... slow for black and white can go f3.

Disadvantages:

1) It loses a clear tempo (a Knight moves three times to trade for a Bishop that moved twice).

2) It exchanges one of Black's more influential pieces (that Knight should be heading for c4).

3) It moves White's a-Pawn to b3, where it controls the important c4 square and shields the weakness on b2.

Well, c4 is no longer so important when black doesn't have a knight to put there. 

4) It opens the a-file, making b7-b5 more difficult to arrange without simply dropping the Pawn to N(d4)xb5 (Black's a-Pawn is pinned).
Black has other modes of development. I'm not overly worried about white not having an a pawn if black has compen and by and large as black I like to get rid of a bishop on the c4 diagonal or blot it out by playing e6, a6, b5, d5 and c4 if white's played a closed Sicilian. But generally, get rid of it and it doesn't matter to black if a extra knight move was made. It's worth it. Black can use different development patterns. Maybe b6 and a5.

5) Black gives up some of his central control and leaves White's d4-Knight unchallenged.

The Sicilian is quite double-edged, innit.