Is it dead? I think we would both agree, NO!
Is the King's Gambit dead?
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After 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Bh4+ isnt so good for black, white can play 5 Kf1 or : 5 g3 fxg3 6 0-0 !! this line scores about 70% for white according to chess assistant ! However, if you are worried about not beling able to castle the kings gambit isnt a good choice to play as white because many of the best lines for white is to move the king on a check from h4, sometimes to f1 and sometimes to e2 and even to d2 in some lines.
Jan 15, 2009
0
#24
Hello Tarius,
First of all : congratulations for analyzing on your own and trying to develop your own ideas - that's clearly a good way to improve one's chess ! 
As for your idea, I have the feeling it may prove more of a liability than a strength if black plays like in the first featured GM game with 4.h4 Nf6! 5.e5 Nh5 followed by a quick d6 - however, there may be ways for white to fight even there.
Payback wrote:
Bishop gambit is sound. Check the book 'Fascinating King's Gambit'
Imay be. But as a centaur player I can say the most recent book gets outdated --- top GMs have live feeds (like reuters' ticker-tape was for stockholders et alin the old days ) - they do an 11-th hour check if a game in progrss somewhere in the world seems to be refuting some variation they want to play.. and those real-time services are expensive...
The place to look for, for to an answer to these questions, is recent serious computer+human (centaur/advanced-chess) chess games - pecially engine+humanGM v engine+humanGM - at iecc, iccf, ficgs, ... .
But I'd trust even free databases [filtered through to 2500+ v 2500+ min., and looking at recent games - and sp. when did a line stopped geting played at highest levels] to any book - for the detailed lines I mean.
In practice, when nothing *real* is at stake [FM/IM?GM norms; elo ratings, ..] -- the KG is sound at no-engines fast-correspondence below IM level.
This site offers max 14 days/move; NO fischerincrement! [on ficgs, the standard is 40 days/10moves + fischerincrement 40 days/10 moves] - so chess.com offers *fast* *no-engines* correspondence.
So at chess.com - below IM v IMl level - the KG is sound.
Tarius ... yes there is a problem with h4 which is threefold. First it is not necessary vs the Be7 line there and so is a lost tempo in an opening where a tempo can be all the difference. Secondly, it weakens the WT King's field, leaving holes without achieving any of the objectives for which h4 is played in other lines (which is also played as a forcing move there, not prophylactic). Third, a big one ... by playing h4 there you are trying to prevent BLACK FROM PLAYING AN ERROR. Actually playing Bh4+ only requires the WT King to move Kf1, where it is not uncomfortable; but the Bh4 is not taken immediately by the Nf3 and so will remain there as a target that limits movement of the BL Q or requires waste of a tempo to retreat it to safety.
So have to say I agree with Scarblac and NM Reb on that variation.
As for whether the Kings Gambit is DEAD? YES! er, NO! But it was dead several times and keeps getting resurrected it seems. Much like the Dragon Sicilian. Well in the KGA GM Larry Evans has said that the Berlin Defense 3...Nf6 is very hard to meet. And then Fischer has said his 3...d6 4....g5 system busts it. And someone has said 3...d5 busts it too. Tho the ones I've seen have gone either way, to the better player more or less. But I'ts not a line I've invested much study in myself. Personally, I like the Falkbeer Counter-Gambit for an easy time. Anytime BL can equalize or better in the first dozen moves, that's a manner of victory already, imo. (Which is not to say I don't play a WT KG now and then :)
Speaking for the KG, it appears that GM David Bronstein was never afraid to play WT in the KG thruout his career. And was told by his team captain, at least one olympiad, Not to play it but play the Lopez instead. Which did not make him happy, but really he scored at least as well with that opening as the KG. I cant recall specifically. He did shy away one time from playing the Vienna Gambit, a similar opening concept. But has also played it. This info is in his book of "200 Open Games" ...which I recommend anyone to read if they like open games & tactics plus a humorous and insightful author. Also anyone who studies the Ruy Lopez ... Bronstein is a Must Read.
Playing the King's Bishop Gambit avoids 3...g5 - I think.
People tend to avoid the King's Bishop Gambit because of the queen check on h4 - but after 3...Qh4+ 4.Kf1 makes the black queen look out of place.
If black chooses 3...g5? instead of Qh4, h4 is the best move in the position -
Reb wrote:
After 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 Be7 4.Bc4 Bh4+ isnt so good for black, white can play 5 Kf1 or : 5 g3 fxg3 6 0-0 !! this line scores about 70% for white according to chess assistant ! However, if you are worried about not beling able to castle the kings gambit isnt a good choice to play as white because many of the best lines for white is to move the king on a check from h4, sometimes to f1 and sometimes to e2 and even to d2 in some lines.
I feel very confortable in this variation (5. g3 fxg3 6. 0-0) and I played it for many times.
The white's situation looks like hell, but I like it more than black's position :-)
About black's best second move, I think 2. ... Qh4+ is a strong move and white must be very carefully planning his attack. This move is somehow "out of King's Gambit" and white must play another type of game, with his pawn on g3.
Ratkins: In the second game you gave there, 14. Re4+! was a lovely deflecting move that sums up what makes the KG so much fun to play as White.
gabel and Reb: that's an interesting line (5. g3 fxg3 6. 0-0!!), I'll definitely try it out at the soonest opportunity, thanks.
Hi, I play king gambit very often otb always in long-time matches and i found cunningham defence (3...Be7) one of the simplest to play for white.
I hardly prefer 4.Nc3, in which the check in h4 is quite dubious, in case of it, the K goes to e2 and the game become a better version of the Steinitz's gambit in the Vienna game. Very fun!
A devoted King's Gambiteer!
no I dont think so
Jan 18, 2009
0
#32
Alright guys, this has all been very insightful - thanks! I've already been aplying the knowledge discussed in play to great success.
Case in point: we only touched briefly on the 3. ... g5 response to the 3.Nf3 in the KG accepted game...
I've heard it argued that 3. ... g5 is one of the, if not THE , best responses for black. Well here is a great game I just played that refutes this claim. It shows that with hyper agressive style - sacs-o-rama and constant King chastisement, victory can be assured for white. Check it out, tell me what you think:
3. ... g5 = White 1, Black 0
Yes, 4...f6 is completey losing for black. If you want to support g5 with another pawn, I think h6 is fairly sound (since after Nxg5 hxg5, the rook covers the h4 square the queen would like to come to), but I wouldn't play it.
Jan 19, 2009
0
#34
gabrielconroy wrote:
Yes, 4...f6 is completey losing for black. If you want to support g5 with another pawn, I think h6 is fairly sound (since after Nxg5 hxg5, the rook covers the h4 square the queen would like to come to), but I wouldn't play it.
Actually - I don't know about that - in the game above, tell me: how does black respond (after 4.Bc4 h6?!) to 5. Ne5! ? If 5. ... Nh6, then 6. Qh5+ would spell certain doom for black. Alternatively, there is the response 5. ... Qe7 but then 6. Qh5+ Kd8 7. Nf7+ and the only move black has left is to lose his queen for a knight - i.e. lose.
As far as I'm concerned, after the KG accepted and 3. Nf3, 3. ... g5?? loses, given proper play.
Jan 19, 2009
0
#35
Edit: my mistake! Given 3. ... h6, Nh6 is obviously not even possible. So this further proves my point - since 4. ... h6 5. Ne5! Ne7?? 6. BxN# or 5. ... Nf6 6. Nxf7 forking Q and R.
Of course if the knight is not moved, then 6.Qh5 (+) would be fatal anyways.
Seems like a catch 22 - in either case, I still maintain 3. ... g5??
Well, you're probably right about 4...h6, but I just looked on a database, and after 4. Bc4 Bg7, black shows a 53.7% win rate, to white's 34.3% win rate. So according to that, g5 is far from weak. Since I never play 1...e5, I only ever play White in the KG. It's a strong opening in blitz at my level, so I use it pretty often. I think h6 comes after 4...Bg7 5. h4 h6, when Black's win rate is over 60%.
Jan 19, 2009
0
#37
style="font-weight: bold; display: block;">gabrielconroy wrote:
Well, you're probably right about 4...h6, but I just looked on a database, and after 4. Bc4 Bg7, black shows a 53.7% win rate, to white's 34.3% win rate. So according to that, g5 is far from weak. Since I never play 1...e5, I only ever play White in the KG. It's a strong opening in blitz at my level, so I use it pretty often. I think h6 comes after 4...Bg7 5. h4 h6, when Black's win rate is over 60%.
I see - so what we have is the following:
which seems like a valid continuation for black after 3. ... g5 ; in which case I'll have to rescind the ?? I gave it. However, I have occaisionally seem 5. 0-0 played in response, and even 6. Nc3 or 6. d4 after 5. ... g4 . Surprising, but the kingside attack which follows can be devastating. I'll have to try that line so that I can post it here.
4...g4 5. 0-0!? is the Muzio Gambit - I use it quite a lot in fast games. Black can get completely crushed if he's not careful.
Why is this discussion so "3...Be7"-sided? From what I have seen/analyzed, 3...g5 is better than Be7. Can we switch to analyzing this line for a bit?
- Wil
h4 is not a continuation. It is either Nf3 OR Bc4, only after black plays ...g5 do you attempt h4. By the way, your variation of the cunningham is a bit off. White usually plays d4 after Be7, and then moves to the other side of the board, because black has more then enough force to break the kingside open.