Is the Scandinavian viable at 1000 elo? What are your thoughts?
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Hi! I am a beginner too.
But I still don't study Qa5.
I started Qd6 variation recently. ( I played 1...... e5 from my chess beginning.)
From my little experience, if someone doesn't try the main defences like 1....e5, Caro-kann, French, Sicilian It's OK to try the Scandinavian.
The point is Qd6 variation of the Scandinavian has less theory.
So I have free time to study other important topics likes tactics, endgames, opening principles.
I don't think It's weak or problematic with players in the same rating as myself.
Scandi is good and has (at least one line) some overlap with the Caro but overall less theory and also exist lines with gambits. If you'd like a book (although not the line you show) i think a good one is "the safest Scandinavian". It's written by a greek GM.
Scandinavian is playable at any level and in all time controls.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1768345
Agreed 👍 the Center Counter Defense (The Scandinavian) is playable at any level.
At the 2300-2500 elo range, it is seen with regularity.
The Anderssen Var 3...Qa5 (most consider this to be the main line) theory wise is holding its own.
The Melts Var 3...Qd6. (a sub varation of it ) Took a hit... some years back. Gm Tiviakov 2700+ elo used a varation with frequency, He played the line 3...Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c6 6. h3 g6. 7. Bd3 Bg7. 8. 0-0 0-0.
Two things ..A) GM Tiviakov still plays that line, so he must have repaired it. B) that line is not the main line of the 3...Qd6 Melts Var. (It's a sub line/off shoot) 3...Qd6. For decades was has a decent defense used in CC Postal Chess.. CC Grand masters used to play openings totally different than OTB GMs... However.... due to the computer assisted analysis environment of postal chess , postal chess is dead... the advent of the computer, has destroyed postal chess... there is only a select few openings that are played anymore... and all of them end in draws...
Example NO one plays the Caro Kann or the French.. and many lines in the Sicilian are not played. the Only Queen's pawn defense NOW played is the Slav...again always ends in a draw. No KID, NO QID etc etc
To reiterate again Postal Chess is dead...
OTB i.e. real chess, most openings are perfectly playable.
Super GMs probably think the Scandinavian is easier than most to form a plan against in OTB... and at that level that might be true. IdK... I remember people saying the Tarrasch Defense was garbage after Karpov beat back Kasparov using the Tarrasch .( FYI: Karpov made Kasparov adopt the KID) Chess theorist say there is Nothing wrong with the Tarrasch . . still most super GMs shy away from it.
I suspect it's the same with the Scandinavian. Trends being what they.
I play it .. I also play the Caro-Kann ... I think of the Center Counter as the Kann's northern cousin from Scandinavia... I view it as more aggressive, less sophisticated Kann (it's pawn formation are akin the the Bronstien-Larsen Var in the Kann)
The book The Safest Scandinavian is about 3...Qd6. I stopped playing 3...Qd6 because I always got bad games against Shirov's 7 f4. In my opinion the best book on 3...Qa5 is The Scandinavian for Club Players.
The Tarrasch Defense was mentioned. That is what I usually play as black - the 3...Qa5 Scandinavian, and Tarrasch Defense -1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 (or 3 Nf3) c5.
The Scandinavian is a more open and tactical game but still retaining a CaroKann like pawn structure. It also avoids a majority of the proper CaroKann variations.
As said above, it can be played at high levels.
If you enjoy it, play it! I do.
Mar 15, 2024
0
#9
Scandinavian defense works against both Scandinavian and Nordic players. JK. It is playable from total beginners to super GMs. I recommend Qd6 variation played by GM Tiviakov.
UnsidesteppableChess wrote:
The book The Safest Scandinavian is about 3...Qd6. I stopped playing 3...Qd6 because I always got bad games against Shirov's 7 f4. In my opinion the best book on 3...Qa5 is The Scandinavian for Club Players.
The Tarrasch Defense was mentioned. That is what I usually play as black - the 3...Qa5 Scandinavian, and Tarrasch Defense -1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 (or 3 Nf3) c5.
The line advocated in "The Scandinavian for Club Players" against the 6.Bd2 critical variation is unplayable. Black does have a sort-of-playable alternative, but the resulting positions aren't comfortable.
Postal chess is dead?!
Mazetoskylo wrote:
UnsidesteppableChess wrote:
The book The Safest Scandinavian is about 3...Qd6. I stopped playing 3...Qd6 because I always got bad games against Shirov's 7 f4. In my opinion the best book on 3...Qa5 is The Scandinavian for Club Players.
The Tarrasch Defense was mentioned. That is what I usually play as black - the 3...Qa5 Scandinavian, and Tarrasch Defense -1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 (or 3 Nf3) c5.
The line advocated in "The Scandinavian for Club Players" against the 6.Bd2 critical variation is unplayable. Black does have a sort-of-playable alternative, but the resulting positions aren't comfortable.
Is this the line you are referring to or something else? In that chapter After 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qa5 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bf5 6 Bd2 e6 7 Ne5 Qb6 8 Qf3 c6 9 0-0-0 Nbd7 white is better but black seems ok enough.
putshort wrote:
Postal chess is dead?!
Dead.... as 6 week old roadkill.
The top guys run 6-7 computers with the processors dimed... crush varations and play a move based on the decimal point of the evaluation.
Anyone with enough cash to afford 6 computer and the beefed up software can do it.
UnsidesteppableChess wrote
Is this the line you are referring to or something else? In that chapter After 1 e4 d5 2 exd5 Qxd5 3 Nc3 Qa5 4 d4 Nf6 5 Nf3 Bf5 6 Bd2 e6 7 Ne5 Qb6 8 Qf3 c6 9 0-0-0 Nbd7 white is better but black seems ok enough.
I looked at that myself and couldn't tell either.
When I plyed Qd6, I played. 5...a6 and Nc6 then depending where White's bishop's moved (either Bf4 or Bc4) black's responses are fine ... And Shirov's f4 ... looks like a poor version of the BF4 LINE...
granted I don't play Qd6 that often anymore .. nore did I spend a lot of time analyzing this (so I might be missing something)
Mar 21, 2024
0
#16
a : 1000 elo isn't a level to register for the world championship and asking if an unrefuted opening is viable among newbies or intermediates doesn't make much sense.
1 : Maybe do tests against a strong bot instead of asking “ what is the truth ? ”
You are White
This position is not viable for Black, can you win as 1000 elo ?
This position is not viable for Black, can you win as 1000 elo ?
2 : If you can't do it there is no point in having a rigid conception of chess in relation with openings because the strong bot proves that even by playing losing openings this doesn't automatically make its lose against you and therefore to ask if the Scandinavian Defense is viable at 1000 elo is all the more nonsense.
b : the elo is a ranking and a numerical display it is not " an objective level which allows us to really get an idea of the strength " for example Hikaru's Step By Step Guide To Chess (youtube.com) Nakamura plays with a nickname that has 500 elo even if he doesn't necessarily play seriously he doesn't become weak or a newbie because his elo is displayed at 500
SURE IS!
The Scandi is viable at almost every level--certainal up to IM. But you need to spend some time learning the ins and outs of it--just like every other opening
Laskersnephew wrote:
The Scandi is viable at almost every level--certainal up to IM. But you need to spend some time learning the ins and outs of it--just like every other opening
yes.
a)so far from what I have learned is, white has various move orders that if black doesn't pay attention he may be in a bad position.
b) what white does with his d pawn changes the game.
pcalugaru wrote:
Agreed 👍 the Center Counter Defense (The Scandinavian) is playable at any level.
At the 2300-2500 elo range, it is seen with regularity.
The Anderssen Var 3...Qa5 (most consider this to be the main line) theory wise is holding its own.
The Melts Var 3...Qd6. (a sub varation of it ) Took a hit... some years back. Gm Tiviakov 2700+ elo used a varation with frequency, He played the line 3...Qd6 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 c6 6. h3 g6. 7. Bd3 Bg7. 8. 0-0 0-0.
Two things ..A) GM Tiviakov still plays that line, so he must have repaired it. B) that line is not the main line of the 3...Qd6 Melts Var. (It's a sub line/off shoot) 3...Qd6. For decades was has a decent defense used in CC Postal Chess.. CC Grand masters used to play openings totally different than OTB GMs... However.... due to the computer assisted analysis environment of postal chess , postal chess is dead... the advent of the computer, has destroyed postal chess... there is only a select few openings that are played anymore... and all of them end in draws...
Example NO one plays the Caro Kann or the French.. and many lines in the Sicilian are not played. the Only Queen's pawn defense NOW played is the Slav...again always ends in a draw. No KID, NO QID etc etc
To reiterate again Postal Chess is dead...
OTB i.e. real chess, most openings are perfectly playable.
Super GMs probably think the Scandinavian is easier than most to form a plan against in OTB... and at that level that might be true. IdK... I remember people saying the Tarrasch Defense was garbage after Karpov beat back Kasparov using the Tarrasch .( FYI: Karpov made Kasparov adopt the KID) Chess theorist say there is Nothing wrong with the Tarrasch . . still most super GMs shy away from it.
I suspect it's the same with the Scandinavian. Trends being what they.
I play it .. I also play the Caro-Kann ... I think of the Center Counter as the Kann's northern cousin from Scandinavia... I view it as more aggressive, less sophisticated Kann (it's pawn formation are akin the the Bronstien-Larsen Var in the Kann)
Man you answered so much questions I had with this comprehensive reply. Thank you for this. I really was wondering if grandmasters play it at all, because of all the here-say you hear online about "The scandi is trash," or, "The scandi is refuted." Not to mention in most e4 games you typically only see Sicilian, King's Indian, Caro-kaan and e5 in most grandmaster games. Yeah I've been thinking to consider Qd6, but there may be a learning curve as I have gotten quite used to Qa5.
Looking particularly at the 3. Nc3,Qa5 variation. This is the black opening I play against e4 and have seen success with it at a fairly consistent rate, about 60% of the time. I believe it's quite sharp, aggressive and fun to play, and I can get a consistent position within 5 moves. However, I know people tend to claim that it is weak or problematic. Is this true?