Is the Smith-Morra Gambit a good idea for regular play?

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poucin
drmrboss a écrit :

Most gambits become more and more unsound in higher level play.

 

Smith -Morgan gambit is better for black side in term of strong play (computer chess level).

 

As chess is very drawish and one extra pawn is generally not enough to win . (KP v K = draw , KBP v KB = draw , KRPvKR= draw etc). White can play smith morgan  in two reasons,

1. I will take the risk by giving away a pawn and if black cant figure out the best play, I will beat him.

2. If black can figure out, I will be in inferior position but I should be able to drag for draw.

Example of two games of two strongest chess players in the world! 

 
 

 

 

 

 

Your games mean nothing since none of your engines found Logozar's refutation.

drmrboss
poucin wrote:
drmrboss a écrit :

Most gambits become more and more unsound in higher level play.

 

Smith -Morgan gambit is better for black side in term of strong play (computer chess level).

 

As chess is very drawish and one extra pawn is generally not enough to win . (KP v K = draw , KBP v KB = draw , KRPvKR= draw etc). White can play smith morgan  in two reasons,

1. I will take the risk by giving away a pawn and if black cant figure out the best play, I will beat him.

2. If black can figure out, I will be in inferior position but I should be able to drag for draw.

Example of two games of two strongest chess players in the world! 

 
 

 

 

 

 

Your games mean nothing since none of your engines found Logozar's refutation.

Those are examples of game play for smith morgan gambit.

If he would like to find his refutation, he has to run his stockfish or serach in ICCF database (where people run stockfish for 1 positon for 2 weeks)

HashBangFoo

The smg is about accelarting the developement of minor pieces. Giving up that one pawn is sacrificed under the pretence to giving open c and d lines for both Rooks, which can result into many tactical maneuvers, alongside long diagonale attacks with the whitequare Bishop.

However, when black is able to defend properly, the chances are more a draw, rather than a loss for white. How not to defend as black: 



BonTheCat
pfren wrote: The real criterion for labelling an opening as "good" is whether it can be handled well using understanding and sound principles, and not by memorizing one thousand lines and having to deal with irrational positions.

Regarding all that, the Morra is just fine for OTB play, and does not need any deep theoretical knowledge to master.

This!

Nakamura has a point when he says that he feels that GMs in the lower range have actually gotten worse in recent years, thanks to the overreliance on computer engines. Virtually anything is playable, but we're humans and not machines, and our thinking is guided much more by concepts, ideas and principles than constant calculation.

As for using blitz as a training method for learning new openings/variations (a method by which the Swedish GM Harry Schüssler, among others, has sworn for decades), I think it's important to realize that there are definite pros and cons. The benefit is that you can try them out relatively quickly and - these days - anonymously (thanks to all online sites and computers) and play a high number of games to get at a reasonable feel for it, especially when combined with playing over high quality games in the opening rapidly, not really pondering the moves, in order to imbibe the patterns (GM Ferdinand Hellers and GM Pontus Carlsson - and probably many other strong GMs - used to do that to get a general feel for strategy). The obvious downside is that you're only working at a superficial level, and in blitz some openings are just too difficult to play properly. Trying it out in correspondence is a great idea, too, but you have to have the time to spare.

pfren
Optimissed έγραψε:

In post #83 LCZero v0.21.1-nT40.T8.610 (3589) vs. Stockfish 19050918 (3587), white wastes a move with 10. e5. Perhaps white was only playing for a draw, since a Queen move would seem to be on the cards at move 10.

 

It's rather your definition of a "wasted move" that is lacking.

Black intends to consolidate the extra pawn by ...Ne7-Ng6, white needs something direct rather than the complimentary Qe2, and so vacates e4 for a piece (a knight put there looks like a decent idea).

poucin

Once again, chess is a concrete game.

General concepts and waffle are not enough to analyze/evaluate a chess position.

SeniorPatzer

Chess is a game of concrete principles.  happy.png

nighteyes1234
poucin wrote:

Once again, chess is a concrete game.

General concepts and waffle are not enough to analyze/evaluate a chess position.

 

I think you know the answer to secret chess is you have to buy the book to find out. But hey, its confirmed by a few human 3/0 blitz games. I may owe Lyudmil an apology for his use of 2/1 computer blitz games.

nighteyes1234
drmrboss wrote:

If he would like to find his refutation, he has to run his stockfish or serach in ICCF database (where people run stockfish for 1 positon for 2 weeks)

 

I was thinking you would be promoting Leela, but curiously gave no mention of NN eval.

 

LogoCzar

No, I distrusted the engine assessment and dug deeper. The engine changed its mind as it was guided deeper into the critical line.

I did check the 2018 CC database and my novelty hasn't been played there yet either.

LogoCzar

The 1900 corrects an IM. Right after the 1900 corrected the computer. Then he says to think like a computer.

LogoCzar

You might be right about what you attempted to correct the IM on (I don't think you are), but you seemed to be showing a double standard. I was pointing out what I saw. If I misinterpreted you, correct me rather than insult me. You have no reason to insult unless you are insulting as a result of being defensive from what I said. Ad Hominem fallacies aren't logical, sorry.

LogoCzar

Not interested in arguing or persuading you. Thanks for reminding me that my posting here has passed the point of diminishing returns.

Untracking...

drmrboss
LogoCzar wrote:

No, I distrusted the engine assessment and dug deeper. The engine changed its mind as it was guided deeper into the critical line.

I did check the 2018 CC database and my novelty hasn't been played there yet either.

You can use the celebrum book( which is the biggest and strongest computer analysed opening book analysed by stockfish in most famous human and computer opening lines for approx >50 depth)

https://zipproth.de/

DrSpudnik

I used to play it a long time ago. It was fun. Then it went more to the Alapin with 3....Nf6 and the party was over.

LogoCzar

Actually, I'm back. For now. I popped back in because of Optimissed's PM.

Thanks, drmrboss. I'll check it out.

workhard91

I think the Morra Gambit is quite playable and many players like to deviate and force white into the c3-Sicilian. That shows you that it is respectable enough to be played at quite a decent level. So if you like the arising positions of Morra (and c3-Sicilian Alapin) go for it.

Hope this helps!

BonTheCat
Optimissed wrote:
BonTheCat wrote:
NMB93 wrote:

The smith-morra gambit is my favorite line in the sicilian as black, though I am at a much lower level. I might simply be playing against people who think they can be tricky and aren't, but I've always found that it removes white's initiative immediately.

It seems to me that anyone playing the Smith-Morra has to be prepared to sacrifice a lot more than just that one pawn in the opening.>>>

The Nd5 sacrifice is often the only means by which white can get an initiative, so black has to be very prepared and to understand different variations of that thematic knight sacrifice.

 

Totally agree.

MorphysMayhem

the SMG is very good!

max2501

I'm 11 years old and I play the Smith-Morra Gambit. My father even found videos on ChessBase about the Smith-Morra Gambit. I'm not good at it (yet) but if you now the variation and are a good attacking player I would play it.