Italian game or two knights defence. whats your pick?

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tigergutt
Bestbythetest wrote:

fried liver


interesting. you actually enter the fried liver as black?

Atos

Not sure, but this page has links to some further resources. My understanding is that Fritz and Ulvestad transpose into each other in their main lines and it's only the sidelines that make them separate variations.

http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-knights-defense-fritz-ulvestad.html

u103976

I recently played the two knights defence and I have a question: I was playing against 4.Ng5 andI responded with 4.Bc5. Then he played Nxf7, forking my queen and rook. I was wondering if there was a response that prevents this...

u103976
hapahauli wrote:
103976 wrote:

I recently played the two knights defence and I have a question: I was playing against 4.Ng5 andI responded with 4.Bc5. Then he played Nxf7, forking my queen and rook. I was wondering if there was a response that prevents this...


After 4.Ng4, the only move is 4...d5!  Think of it as a strike in the center while white is wasting tempo with a knight excursion.  After white plays 5.exd5, there are three main moves:

5...Nxd5!?  is considered somewhat dubious, due to 6.Nxf7!? or 6.d4!, both leading to great attacking positions for white.  5...b5!? leads to lines of the Fritz-Ulvestad variation, which is my main weapon against this variation.  It sacrifices a pawn, but leads to a middle-game attack for white.  In the main-main lines, white can prove a small edge, but otherwise, black can equalize very easily and get crushing mating attacks against the white king.  5...Na4 is the main-line move, where after 6.Bb5 c6 7.dxc6 bxc6, black sacs a pawn for development, open lines, and an attack.  It is the most popular move in the position.

Keep in mind that the two main tries (5...b5 and 5...Na4) are both pawn-sacrifices for the initiative and attack.  If you are not comfortable playing such lines, I'd reccomend playing into the Guioco Piano instead of the two-knights defense. 


Thanks!! That really helped to see it spelt out like that. :)

Conquistador

Both variations are legitimate and theory heavy.  The Two Knight's gives more winning chances to black.  It really is a matter of taste.

If you are playing the Two Knights here is a few variations:

3...Nf6 4.d3-White wimps out.  Simply 4...Be7 and black already has equality.

4.Ng5 and only two main moves.

4...Bc5!? is the Traxler Counterattack, one of the most complex variations in the game.  Do not enter this if you do not the theory or you will lose in under 15 moves.

4...d5 5.exd5 is the main move.  A few more variations here:

5...Nxd5?!-Weakest, leading to the Fried Liver Attack After 6.Nxf7!? or the Lolli 6.d4!  Even though black's defense has improved considerably, this variation is still nowhere near equality yet.  The question is moot anyways as the otb problems simply make it impractical.

5...Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 Nxd5 or 5...b5 6.Bf1 Nd4 7.c3 Nxd5 are the Fritz and Ulvested Variations.  These are great practical weapons which pretty well transpose into each other.  Theoretically however, it is taking a beating and ends with white having a significant advantage.

5...Na5!-This is the Chigorian Variation and is best overall.  After 6.Bb5+ c6 (6...Bd7 is also possible) 7.dxc6 bxc6 an interesting position is reached with a lot of dynamic potential.

Now for the Italian Game.

3...Bc5 and now:

4.b4-Evans Gambit-Black should be okay, but he better know the theory or he might end up on the wrong side of a brilliancy.

4.d4-Italian Gambit, but this is more of a transpositional device to other Italian or Scotch Gambit variations.

4.d3-Leads to the Giuoco Pianissimo, which pretty much sucks up all of black's winning chances leaving only white the edge.  Not a particularly fun game to play.

4.c3-Probably the most well known.  4...Nf6 and two main moves again:

5.d3 is the Giuoco Pianissimo again.

5.d4 exd4 6.cxd4 Bb4+ leads to the well traveled lines of the Italian.

7.Kf1?!-The ancient Krakow Variation which is dubious, but surprisingly dangerous.

7.Nc3-The Moller Variation.  Black better know his theory here.  If he does, the game can lead to a number of forced draws.  Black is fine with best play.

7.Bd2-The Rossolimo Variation.  Again, black has to be careful here.  There are two main moves here:

7...Bxd2+ leads into a very wide open positional game which white cannot demonstrate an advantage.

7...Nxe4! pretty much kills white's chances completely.  By force, black directs white to a dead equal endgame.

7.Nbd2-The Powtow Variation.  This is less traveled compared to the last three.  Ultimately though, this variation should not give white anything more than an equal game.

The Italian is a complex beast.

rooperi
hapahauli wrote:
103976 wrote:

I recently played the two knights defence and I have a question: I was playing against 4.Ng5 andI responded with 4.Bc5. Then he played Nxf7, forking my queen and rook. I was wondering if there was a response that prevents this...


After 4.Ng4, the only move is 4...d5!  Think of it as a strike in the center while white is wasting tempo with a knight excursion.  After white plays 5.exd5, there are three main moves:

5...Nxd5!?  is considered somewhat dubious, due to 6.Nxf7!? or 6.d4!, both leading to great attacking positions for white.  5...b5!? leads to lines of the Fritz-Ulvestad variation, which is my main weapon against this variation.  It sacrifices a pawn, but leads to a middle-game attack for white.  In the main-main lines, white can prove a small edge, but otherwise, black can equalize very easily and get crushing mating attacks against the white king.  5...Na4 is the main-line move, where after 6.Bb5 c6 7.dxc6 bxc6, black sacs a pawn for development, open lines, and an attack.  It is the most popular move in the position.

Keep in mind that the two main tries (5...b5 and 5...Na4) are both pawn-sacrifices for the initiative and attack.  If you are not comfortable playing such lines, I'd reccomend playing into the Guioco Piano instead of the two-knights defense. 


Off course there is also 5 ...Nd4, the Fritz Variation, which was once beat Bobby Fischer in less than 20 moves.....

Texesa

hmm...

ChessisGood

For your style, I'd suggest the Scotch.