i don't mind theory. i play the sicilian ;)
KID or Dutch?


All the local NMs I know enjoy playing the KID as their main defense to 1. d4. The ones here seem to like it as well. I think it's popular for several reasons:
1. Fischer and Kasparov destroyed countless opponents with it. That probably is reason enough for almost every club player to want to use it. See also Sicilian Najdorf. (Although the interesting thing is that the KID met its nemesis against Kramnik's Bayonett Attack, and was probably one of the factors leading to his victory over the great Kasparov).
2. It's tricky to learn the timing, and how to time the pawn pushes, etc., but once you learn it, you can use the KID against ANYTHING and EVERYTHING someone throws at you. Even though you may learn it primarily to combat 1. d4, you can also use it just as well against 1. e4 and the English and many other popular opening choices.
3. It's very popular, and you can probably find dozens of books on it, and lots of people with experience using it to coach you.
Out of all the people I've met at clubs, tournaments, and online, I know of only one serious player who religiously uses the Dutch against 1. d4.
But if you learn the KID, be prepared for the Bayonett Attack. I would think it's almost as popular as people using the Yugoslav against the Sicilian Dragon.

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents...I have played the Dutch in the past and I find it is better for me at this stage of my chess playing ability; I don't have much time to devote to studying lines upon lines of theory the KID seem to require. This is not to say that I think the Dutch is bette than the KID; I actually have tried the KID although I found that I did not have much success due to my lack of knowledge for the opening. Having said that, I do get in trouble a lot more than I'd like when playing the Dutch; anyway, I get in trouble when playing black in general so it's not a big deal to me. The Dutch, I know (somewhat) because there's not as much theory; so it is better in that sense (at least for me).

anyway, I get in trouble when playing black in general so it's not a big deal to me. The Dutch, I know (somewhat) because there's not a much theory; so it is better in that sense (at least for me).
I used to have the same problem playing similar openings as black. I did find the solution though. It seems that as black I needed to play more solid openings. To equalize first and then try to go for the initiative, unlike openings like the dutch that try to seize the initiative early on instead but at the cost of risky positions. Now I'm happily playing Slav defense and Caro-Kann and I'm almost doing better as black then with white which is a first ever.

While the Dutch doesn't have the reams and reams and reams and (continue ad nauseam) reams of theory that the KID can produce, I would say it's still an option that can require a good deal of study. A lot of the anti-Dutch lines are tricky, such as 1.d4 f5 2.Bg5, and the Leningrad Dutch is razor sharp. The Staunton Gambit doesn't have the best reputation today (1.d4 f5 2.e4), but it's an option that can claim a few unprepared scalps.
I do play the Leningrad, but I fear my rear is about to be kicked. Hopefully that soon-to-be offsides knight will compensate for displaced king, no? Active pieces!

How many world champions played the dutch regularly and how many the KID ?
I don't know about all the world champions, but it I recall that Botvinick played dutch as die Alekhine. Other notables I think would include Korchnoi...

Morphy, Alekhine & Botvinnik are three world champions who used the Dutch Defense although only Morphy played it routinely. See:
Rabinovitch-Alekhine St Petersburg 1920
Bogoljuboff-Alekhine, Hastings 1922 (a really awesome game)
Tartakower-Alekhine, San Remo 1930
Rabinovich-Botvinnik USSR CH 1927
Flohr-Botvinnik 10th Match Game 1933
Steiner-Botvinnik Groningen 1946
Bronstein-Botvinnik World CH 1951 Game 12
The KID is undoubtedly way more popular than the Dutch, but it's also a difficult opening to master if you don't like closed positions.
I prefer the Dutch Defense Fluid variation to the Stonewall Formation, but the World Champs seem to have liked the Stonewall

My chess teacher David Surya, WN, tell me about defenses for black agains d4.
The Dutch Defense have very very strong attack with :
if white choose fianchettoing his/her king's bishop then black move his/her king's bishop to e7, and attacking white king's side : Qe7, Qh5, Rf6, Rh6. (Don't choose the stonewall !)
The KID can destroyed with four pawn attack.
This is Dutch :
And the KID :
The Slav :
The Semi-Slav :
The QID :

anyway, I get in trouble when playing black in general so it's not a big deal to me. The Dutch, I know (somewhat) because there's not a much theory; so it is better in that sense (at least for me).
I used to have the same problem playing similar openings as black. I did find the solution though. It seems that as black I needed to play more solid openings. To equalize first and then try to go for the initiative, unlike openings like the dutch that try to seize the initiative early on instead but at the cost of risky positions. Now I'm happily playing Slav defense and Caro-Kann and I'm almost doing better as black then with white which is a first ever.
My record as white versus black is so messed up you would not believe it; I keep track of all my Correspondence games because the results get e-mailed to my gmail account. Anyway, I win around 75% of the time as white, and only around 50% as black; most of my loses are as black, over twice as much compared to when I play white.

The only thing thats keeping me fom playing the Dutch in OTB chess at the moment is the myriad of anti Dutch lines. I play the Sicilian as a response to 1.e4 and so can't really respond with 1...e6 (hoping to get a Stonewall) or 1...d6 (hoping to get a Leningrad) should white decide to play 2. e4 (although the chance may be low...). And im not quite sure if learning either the Pirc or French just for the sake of avoiding anti-Dutch lines is worth it unless you already play those as responses to e4 of course.
Especially the Leningrad and the h4-h5 Exchange sac line is what im afraid of. But if it weren't for all these anti Dutch lines I would say the Dutch b/c many opponents are less prepared. If you do decide to adopt the Dutch though always have a solid backup defence.
Uhm, if the slav defense gave you good results why are you even considering changing? Obviously you are good at playing the middlegame eventhough you for some reason don't like slav middlegames.
Also consider this. There are alot of anti-dutch lines you have to learn and which take you to positions that are nothing like dutch positions. Good thing about the slav is that there is no real anti slav line but more the other way around. Slav is anti many crap openings.
Stick with the slav and win if you ask me. If you have to choose though I'd say go for the KID but be aware there is alot of theory to know to not get squished by various bayonet attacks cramping your whole position.
i was probably around 50% with the slav. i really stopped using it because i hated the middle game positions i'd reach. with the pawns all in the middle it makes it difficult to open the position up i'd find.
i feel like the dutch can be much more open and tactical, and i feel like the KID (even though it can be fairly closed position) has more possibilities of opening up later on since i can push some pawns later and try to take advantage of white's "weak" central pawns. at least that is my perception as of now. i just started playing the KID.
Then you should definately play Grunfeld defense. Only response to 1.d4 that really opens the game. Be prepared for alot of theory though. It's sharp and tricky.