I personally play the ...e5 lines against 6.Be3 and the Panno against 6.Bg5 (...e5 lines are a blunder against 6.Bg5). If White plays 7.Nge2, then typically a trade on d4 opens the B on g7. If 7.d5, then 7...Nh5 and after 8.Qd2, you can play 8...f5 or go for the Bronstein Gambit, 8...Qh4+ 9.g3 Nxg3 10.Qf2 Nxf1 11.Qxh4 Nxe3 followed by 12...Nxc4.
I prefer the latter, but have also played 8...f5.
Good stuff bro, but a board diagram might help understand better.
Posting from a cell phone. No can do. The assumption is that you know the first 5 moves as the Samisch first deviates at move 6 by White.
Get out your board, set up the pieces, and play out the moves if you can't visualize it.
The Neo-Byrne variation (...a6 plus ...c6 without a quick ...0-0) is just fine. The Saemisch setup is too slow to cause Black real trouble.
I agree the Saemisch is no bust to the Kings indian, but black still needs to know what he is doing. It is not slow like the Colle Koltanowski is.
I actually get good results (and so did Dreev) with the 6.Bg5 lines (instead of 6.Be3, which I find easy to defend as Black).
Not a refutation by any stretch, but I see it as stronger than 6.Be3, having a few more issues as Black and better positions with White. Like the French Advance and French with 3.Nc3, this is another line I play from both sides. (Usually via 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 g6 4.c4 as White.)
Course I'm studying... I won't say which... guy be very hard line? Saying the Samich be the very toughest variation to face, for a KID player. Cannot get kingside attack, cannot get counterplay etc. Nobody played at lower level, but since getting up to l6s and l7s... much more regular? Of course, such be the weaknesses of the KID... one must memorize so much reply, but opponent can pick a pet line, become very confident.
I'll have a peanut butter and jelly samich please?
The forums only serve baloney samiches.
Look bro... forum be for serious Chess player? Not for bum of the day trolling a quick laugh. If you not have serious contribution, get you gone. Lion will not accept fool or troll.
I agree the Saemisch is no bust to the Kings indian, but black still needs to know what he is doing. It is not slow like the Colle Koltanowski is.
I actually get good results (and so did Dreev) with the 6.Bg5 lines (instead of 6.Be3, which I find easy to defend as Black).
Not a refutation by any stretch, but I see it as stronger than 6.Be3, having a few more issues as Black and better positions with White. Like the French Advance and French with 3.Nc3, this is another line I play from both sides. (Usually via 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.f3 g6 4.c4 as White.)
US NM Eric Montany has written a whole book on the Bg5 Saemisch.
His "refutation" of the Byrne system is something like that:
Here, he only considers 11...e5, but I think that Black should not fix the structure yet, since white's setup is absolutely nonthreatening- so moves like 11...Qc7 and 11...Re8 look very natural to me.
He does not mention ...Re8, but he does give more than just 11...e5. He also mentions 11...Qb6 and 11...bxc4.
You could also play the 6.c5 pawn sac line, as recommended in Bologan’s King’s Indian.
The above c6 and a6/e5 are both good as well. Be careful with 6.e5 though
The Neo-Byrne variation (...a6 plus ...c6 without a quick ...0-0) is just fine. The Saemisch setup is too slow to cause Black real trouble.
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I've seen you comment in a couple of posts that the Neo-Byrne variation is fine for black. Why is 6...0-0 a mistake? In many of the a6 + c6 lines black ends up castling a few moves later anyway, and I think engine is giving Qd2 0-0-0 Bh6 line as equal for black even with the king already castled. Not challenging your verdict at all, just genuinely curious why wasting the tempo early on with 0-0 is an inaccuracy, and it'd be greatly appreciated if you could hint at the line in which early 0-0 ends up being suboptimal. Thanks so much!
Bump again regarding the Modern Bryne.
What's the theoretical status surrounding 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 a6 6. Be3 c6 7. e5? It's not played much in the database, but it seems kind of critical and after 7...Nfd7 white has exd6 followed by Qd2 0-0-0 and h4-h5 ideas.
Bump again regarding the Modern Bryne.
What's the theoretical status surrounding 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 a6 6. Be3 c6 7. e5? It's not played much in the database, but it seems kind of critical and after 7...Nfd7 white has exd6 followed by Qd2 0-0-0 and h4-h5 ideas.
That's an interesting question.
I guess Black need not lose his sleep about white's attack, as the center is not fixed like in most of the KID lines. The general defensive plan is castling, and then ...Re8 and ...Nf8 defending h7- and of course answering an eventual h2-h4-h5-hxg6 with ...fxg6. His counterplay is based on ...b5 and possibly ...d5, and of course play via the e-file.
The existing few gmes are not interesting- in all of them Black was the weaker player, and he/she did not handle the position well.
Some quick and dirty analysis- did not have enough time, might review it later.
As always, thank you so much for your analysis and contributions to these opening discussions in the forums! Much appreciated.
I let my computer run last night, and reached a similar conclusion. It seems that black has to find this d5!! and Re8 idea, to force white to close the position and immediately contest the open e file (after something such as the hasty 12...a5?, SF is giving white a massive advantage after 13.Bg5 Qc7 14.Re1!, with the idea of infiltrating via the 7th rank after h5-xg6). Still looks dangerous to play, but so far it seems that black comes reasonably close to equality with precise play. Again, thanks a ton! My line ended much earlier than yours, so I'll definitely have to check out your pgn 
Some follow up "analysis": If black doesn't wish to allow the Bg5-f4 repetition, he can also start 13...Nf8, and 14.Bd3 a5 15.f4 b4 16.Nce2 Qe7 followed by Ba6 and Qe6 also seem to be holding for black, although my analysis isn't thoroughly enough for me to come to an exact conclusion.
US NM Eric Montany has written a whole book on the Bg5 Saemisch.
His "refutation" of the Byrne system is something like that:
Here, he only considers 11...e5, but I think that Black should not fix the structure yet, since white's setup is absolutely nonthreatening- so moves like 11...Qc7 and 11...Re8 look very natural to me.
I've read Lars Schandorff's book on the Indian Defense where he recommends a Samisch against the KID. He has a different approach against the the Bryne Variation where instead of Bg5, he goes c5 to take the sting out of b5
The only difference is here they play ...c6 before ...a6 but the idea is still the same
The Neo-Byrne variation (...a6 plus ...c6 without a quick ...0-0) is just fine. The Saemisch setup is too slow to cause Black real trouble.
That's what I've played and found it to give an interesting game. There is also a system with a6 then Nd7 and c5 in various orders intending top get an improved form of Benko. I haven't studied it deeply but the games in it I've seen look promising for black.
I have played a couple of games in LSS against the c4-c5 line. Both went without any particular issues for Black.
Why did you agree to a draw in this game?
Have been studying a little Kings Indian Defence and getting a feel for the Orthodox, Bayonet, Petrosian etc. But the Samich variation appears to be a nightmare. Can anybody advise best counterplay? Should I do E or C pawn break or Panno or something else?