King's Gambit Refuted

Sort:
Yereslov
steve_bute wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

Either Kamsky blundered or his opponent was higher rated.

Neither posibility justifies the gambit.

You feel you are qualified to make such a statement? No insult intended, but I wonder if you understand what "gambit" means.

A gambit is a risk ... you invest material for compensation, then try to turn the imbalance into a winning position. There are no "winning" gambits, because that would imply no risk -- they would not be called gambits, they would be called forced wins.

In your opinion then, what would justify a gambit?

It is a gambit because you temporarily give up the exchange in the opening.

The Queen's Gambit is certainly not risky.

Spotlion
Yereslov wrote:
1random wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
Franky2929 wrote:

Come on ! King's gambit is not refuted ! If there were such a forced loss for black, GMs wouldn't play it, don't be ridiculous !

Very few GM's play this line. I checked my database with over 1 million games, 365 Chess, and ChessGames.com

In my database with about six million games it seems that the KG has been played by Carlsen, Nakamura, Ivanchuk, Morozevich, Grischuk, Kasparov, Kamsky, Shirov, Short, Polgar, and many more.

You forgot to add "with very rare success."

According to Chessbase 11's reference bar, it seems that the KG has been played over 16000 times with an overall percentage of 54.8 percent, played by some of the best GMs in the world.

 

Dunno, but I don't qualify 50% as rare...

steve_bute
Yereslov wrote:

It is a gambit because you temporarily give up the exchange in the opening.

The Queen's Gambit is certainly not risky.

You do not persuade me. The QG is risky positionally; Black has some violent options where White can be lost very quickly.

Your notion of 'gambit' is overly generalized.

SocialPanda
Yereslov wrote:
steve_bute wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

Either Kamsky blundered or his opponent was higher rated.

Neither posibility justifies the gambit.

You feel you are qualified to make such a statement? No insult intended, but I wonder if you understand what "gambit" means.

A gambit is a risk ... you invest material for compensation, then try to turn the imbalance into a winning position. There are no "winning" gambits, because that would imply no risk -- they would not be called gambits, they would be called forced wins.

In your opinion then, what would justify a gambit?

The Queen's Gambit is justifed. The opening gives up a pawn in in order to destabilize the center without weakining the king-side.

The King's Gambit, on the other hand, hand destabilizes the center with the dubious notion that white will get a strong counter-attack by weakening his own king-side safety.

This might work against a patzer, or someone with zero opening knowledge, but no one prepared against it should have trouble.

Are you calling Kamsky a patzer or someone with zero opening knowledge?

steve_bute
johnsmithson wrote:

Yereslov would have taken Shimanov.  No problem.

Ain't that the truth.

Yereslov
socialista wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
steve_bute wrote:
Yereslov wrote:

Either Kamsky blundered or his opponent was higher rated.

Neither posibility justifies the gambit.

You feel you are qualified to make such a statement? No insult intended, but I wonder if you understand what "gambit" means.

A gambit is a risk ... you invest material for compensation, then try to turn the imbalance into a winning position. There are no "winning" gambits, because that would imply no risk -- they would not be called gambits, they would be called forced wins.

In your opinion then, what would justify a gambit?

The Queen's Gambit is justifed. The opening gives up a pawn in in order to destabilize the center without weakining the king-side.

The King's Gambit, on the other hand, hand destabilizes the center with the dubious notion that white will get a strong counter-attack by weakening his own king-side safety.

This might work against a patzer, or someone with zero opening knowledge, but no one prepared against it should have trouble.

 

Are you calling Kamsky a patzer or someone with zero opening knowledge?

The King's Gambit is refuted theoretically, regardless of your pointless arguing.

When an opening allows the opponent to equalize easily or gain the advantage, it is refuted. Plain and simple, regardless of the results.

And what the hell is that game? If anyone played that badly they would lose, regardless of the opening.

That doesn't justify the gambit.

Go find a game where the opposition is at least decent.

Yereslov
steve_bute wrote:
johnsmithson wrote:

Yereslov would have taken Shimanov.  No problem.

Ain't that the truth.

If he played that badly against me, I would have no trouble. 

Yereslov
johnsmithson wrote:

You think that Shimanov played so poorly in beating Kamsky that you could beat him?  Really - you would feel better if you took some medication.  Do you realize that Shimanov could spot you a rook and still beat you all the time?

Oh, look at this pathetic GM worship.

Black played like crap.

He wasted three moves allowing white to develop a pawn storm, and wasted even more time developing the knight to a useless square.

i have seen better play from IM's.

daddyjordan22

Coming from a 1300's player on an Internet chess site these comments are about to give me hiccups from laughing so hard.

Shadowsoftime99

( Yereslov wrote:

[snip]

"This might work against a patzer, or someone with zero opening knowledge, but no one prepared against it should have trouble.")

Hm? So you say that if I played the King's Gambit against someone who knows how to play against it as black, I would lose? Or at least be fighting for a draw? Well then may I direct you to HERE: http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=71270794

Or HERE: http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=72431760

Or maybe HERE: http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=547010762

Those 3 games are all the Double Muzio Gambit, where I give up 2 minor pieces. Horrible, right? Yeah... No. Also know that Jetfighter13 is a KG player too, and we've played many, many KG games. Maybe it won't work "up there" with the masters, but the Double Muzio is fine down on Earth.

Try HERE for a change, you're Platnium: http://www.chess.com/explorer/?player=tjchessmaster&black=0&db=3&ply=3&id=96

Note that some of these games were against people who had no clue what they're doing, but a lot of them are against players who play the King's Gambit regularly (Go up one ply and look at 2.f4 for the overall stat.)

In my opinion, if you refute an opening, you have to present to me a way in which Black gets equality or better against every single one of White's responses. If White has a way to keep his first-move advantage, even just one, then the opening is perfectly fine.

Shadowsoftime99

Oh, and by the way Yereslov, my Double Muzio is the RIGHT way to play as white in your "refutation".

Yereslov
johnsmithson wrote:

This site is really odd.  There are these people like Yereslov and sloughterhouse who are weak players but think they can beat GM's and Houdini but for obscure reasons they have 1300 chess.com ratings.  When that is pointed out they say things like "Oh, look at this pathetic GM worship.".  Uh, no, it is respect for people much more talented at this than me (and certainly these idiots).  I could play Kamsky 100 times and I would lose every time.  But this 1300 player thinks he could beat him?  This is very odd delusional thinking.

I remember playing against a 900 rated player who was impressed by my blunder. I was in a bind and a piece down and I managed to win.

Pointless rating-worship is the plague of chess.

Yereslov

Now, if that player mentioned was objective with his analysis, he would have easily won, but my rating proved to be a benefit.

heine-borel

Lol. More crap by yereslov...this time in openings. At your level, you don't need to know any openings and you'll be fine.

 "Pathetic GM Worship..."-Yereslov. I respond: Pathetic Computer Worship, Pathetic Self Worship, Pathetic TrollingSkills Worship.

Ratings are based on past results; you're results are poor, yet you keep on doing the same thing: disregarding and insulting stronger players (almost everyone), thinking you could beat them, sandbagging @ 1200?!.

Oh yeah...if you blundered against a 900 player with a piece down, how do you think you would do in the theoretical position in the first post? Do you think black has a piece up advantage? (Oh wait, I forgot- do you think it is -2.87?) If he isn't winning by that much, you would have gotten into a worse and probably lost position against a 900; so much for beating kamsky!

The whole debate with the opening is a total troll attempt. I remember my thinking when I was at this level of play, and there is no way a player could truly think the way yereslov does and get even his rating.

Yereslov
crtexxx wrote:

Lol. More crap by yereslov...this time in openings. At your level, you don't need to know any openings and you'll be fine.

 "Pathetic GM Worship..."-Yereslov. I respond: Pathetic Computer Worship, Pathetic Self Worship, Pathetic TrollingSkills Worship.

Ratings are based on past results; you're results are poor, yet you keep on doing the same thing: disregarding and insulting stronger players (almost everyone), thinking you could beat them, sandbagging @ 1200?!.

Oh yeah...if you blundered against a 900 player with a piece down, how do you think you would do in the theoretical position in the first post? Do you think black has a piece up advantage? (Oh wait, I forgot- do you think it is -2.87?) If he isn't winning by that much, you would have gotten into a worse and probably lost position against a 900; so much for beating kamsky!

The whole debate with the opening is a total troll attempt. I remember my thinking when I was at this level of play, and there is no way a player could truly think the way yereslov does and get even his rating.

You seem to mistake results as indication of skill, rather than luck.

I rarely play OTB chess, and when I do I rush. Chess is not as simple as you think it is. Certain psychological factors play a role.

heine-borel
Yereslov wrote:
crtexxx wrote:

Lol. More crap by yereslov...this time in openings. At your level, you don't need to know any openings and you'll be fine.

 "Pathetic GM Worship..."-Yereslov. I respond: Pathetic Computer Worship, Pathetic Self Worship, Pathetic TrollingSkills Worship.

Ratings are based on past results; you're results are poor, yet you keep on doing the same thing: disregarding and insulting stronger players (almost everyone), thinking you could beat them, sandbagging @ 1200?!.

Oh yeah...if you blundered against a 900 player with a piece down, how do you think you would do in the theoretical position in the first post? Do you think black has a piece up advantage? (Oh wait, I forgot- do you think it is -2.87?) If he isn't winning by that much, you would have gotten into a worse and probably lost position against a 900; so much for beating kamsky!

The whole debate with the opening is a total troll attempt. I remember my thinking when I was at this level of play, and there is no way a player could truly think the way yereslov does and get even his rating.

You seem to mistake results as indication of skill, rather than luck.

I rarely play OTB chess, and when I do I rush. Chess is not as simple as you think it is. Certain psychological factors play a role.

Holy ****!! I said I would stop, but this is too much! My last post regarding this complete and utter idiot! After this, never want to see anything from this guy again. Unfollow ALL.

"You seem to mistake results as an indication of skill, rather than luck".

So he's saying that a GM got a 2500 rating because of "psychological factors" or luck. Masters got their ratings and title because they were "lucky" or at least luck had the major part in it.

You hear that Hikaru, Carlsen, all of the best chess players? Go and play megamillions right now!!!

"I rush" when I play OTB chess.

 So you don't try? Sorriest excuse I've ever heard. uarefunny (serbian master's handle) is nearly blind but he is still finding ways to improve his chess.

"Chess is not as simple as you think it is". What do you know about the complexity of chess? Rofl! I also recall you saying that chess was "not complex" or something like that and offering go as a more complex alternative. What's with the contradiction?

Now I get it all. Not a troll, just someone who thinks that everyone except for him and his best buddy Houdini are idiots. And yet he can't even translate his best friend's numbers and letters into english....Unfollowed+blocked.

Yereslov
crtexxx wrote:
Yereslov wrote:
crtexxx wrote:

Lol. More crap by yereslov...this time in openings. At your level, you don't need to know any openings and you'll be fine.

 "Pathetic GM Worship..."-Yereslov. I respond: Pathetic Computer Worship, Pathetic Self Worship, Pathetic TrollingSkills Worship.

Ratings are based on past results; you're results are poor, yet you keep on doing the same thing: disregarding and insulting stronger players (almost everyone), thinking you could beat them, sandbagging @ 1200?!.

Oh yeah...if you blundered against a 900 player with a piece down, how do you think you would do in the theoretical position in the first post? Do you think black has a piece up advantage? (Oh wait, I forgot- do you think it is -2.87?) If he isn't winning by that much, you would have gotten into a worse and probably lost position against a 900; so much for beating kamsky!

The whole debate with the opening is a total troll attempt. I remember my thinking when I was at this level of play, and there is no way a player could truly think the way yereslov does and get even his rating.

You seem to mistake results as indication of skill, rather than luck.

I rarely play OTB chess, and when I do I rush. Chess is not as simple as you think it is. Certain psychological factors play a role.

Holy ****!! I said I would stop, but this is too much! My last post regarding this complete and utter idiot! After this, never want to see anything from this guy again. Unfollow ALL.

"You seem to mistake results as an indication of skill, rather than luck".

So he's saying that a GM got a 2500 rating because of "psychological factors" or luck. Masters got their ratings and title because they were "lucky" or at least luck had the major part in it.

You hear that Hikaru, Carlsen, all of the best chess players? Go and play megamillions right now!!!

"I rush" when I play OTB chess.

 So you don't try? Sorriest excuse I've ever heard. uarefunny (serbian master's handle) is nearly blind but he is still finding ways to improve his chess.

"Chess is not as simple as you think it is". What do you know about the complexity of chess? Rofl! I also recall you saying that chess was "not complex" or something like that and offering go as a more complex alternative. What's with the contradiction?

Now I get it all. Not a troll, just someone who thinks that everyone except for him and his best buddy Houdini are idiots. And yet he can't even translate his best friend's numbers and letters into english....Unfollowed+blocked.

Good. Now stay out of my threads.

Spotlion

Seriously, people, just stop posting in this thread. We all know Yereslov's just a troll who's pissed because he can't find a filthy enough bridge to sleep under. So just stop posting here and go on with your lives.

I shall speak no more.Cool

chesshole

sounds like you guys are trolling yereslov rather than him being the troll.

heine-borel

Wow, Chesshole! Please break 10000 for your bullet games! It caps a  lifetime of first instincts and rapid judgements...we know there's no time to think in bullet, but there's time to read here...