King's Indian Vs. Nimzo Indian

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agisdon

Nice idea Ziggy_Zugzwang

TwoMove

It's not really the Nimzo on it's own. Need something against 3Nf3 i.e (Queen's Indian, Bogo, QueensGambit). Also against the catalan 3g3, plus the queen pawn lines without c4, have more kick with e6 played early. All adds up to a lot of work.

Justs99171

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

ThrillerFan
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

pfren, I think what he meant is that Black can play the same first 5 moves almost no matter what against any follow-up to d4.  The Nimzo that is not true.

For example:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.e3 d6 5.h3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.c3 d6

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.c3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6 (not the worst move ever) 3.Bxf6 exf6 followed by 4...Bg7 and 5...O-O

 

Notice how Black's moves are virtually the same as what he would play if White actually played the King's Indian.  It's not that the pawn structures are all the same because they aren't.  And, of course, you have to know how to follow up against each one.  He probably simply meant you don't have to think about the game until move 6 if you play the King's Indian.

youainttakingmyqueen

agisdon wrote:

Which is better? Please leave your suggestions below!

agisdon wrote: Which is better? Please leave your suggestions below!

Assasin14

Nimzo is obiviously better Carlsen plays it 

Assasin14

Queens Indian is better than NID though

 

Justs99171
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

You did not understand me at all. I am saying the King's Indian is too complicated for most people. But if someone plays the Colle or London, though, then the King's Indian set up is preferable.

Justs99171
ThrillerFan wrote:
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

pfren, I think what he meant is that Black can play the same first 5 moves almost no matter what against any follow-up to d4.  The Nimzo that is not true.

For example:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.e3 d6 5.h3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.c3 d6

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.c3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6 (not the worst move ever) 3.Bxf6 exf6 followed by 4...Bg7 and 5...O-O

 

Notice how Black's moves are virtually the same as what he would play if White actually played the King's Indian.  It's not that the pawn structures are all the same because they aren't.  And, of course, you have to know how to follow up against each one.  He probably simply meant you don't have to think about the game until move 6 if you play the King's Indian.

That's mostly what I meant. I did not mean that you don't have to think about the game.

geojem_63

Apples vs Oranges

Sred
geojem_63 wrote:

Apples vs Oranges

Apples and Oranges have much, much more in common than most people seem to think. Also, it's totally sensible to compare them.

indiaonsicily

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

SuirenBoid

They are just different, I would suggest that the Nimzo is more flexible and gives white less options, vs the KID white has lots of options at his disposal. 

SuirenBoid
indiaonsicily wrote:

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

That comment made no sense to me whatsoever, the KID and the French are not even slightly related, many d4,c4 openings can become blocked, including the Nimzo Indian, I would suggest the Nimzo is a much closer relative due to the pressure black puts on the centre and a vague similarity in pawn structure

indiaonsicily

Whatever, KID is more attacking.  The downside is that you have to learn more theory to avoid a dumpster fire from 1800 onward

Justs99171
SuirenBoid wrote:
indiaonsicily wrote:

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

That comment made no sense to me whatsoever, the KID and the French are not even slightly related, many d4,c4 openings can become blocked, including the Nimzo Indian, I would suggest the Nimzo is a much closer relative due to the pressure black puts on the centre and a vague similarity in pawn structure

It makes plenty of since. He was just a little vague. What he meant to say wasn't "blocked," but that both openings involve middle games with pawn chains; so that pawn chain strategies become predominant and decisive.

SuirenBoid

I guess, even if they tend to have an opposite colour strategy.

 

Justs99171
SuirenBoid wrote:

I guess, even if they tend to have an opposite colour strategy.

 

There are certain strategical patterns regarding pawn chains and all pawn structures. Not all patterns in chess are tactical.

SuirenBoid

I just do not get it at all, could you please point out the similarities as I see no similar pawn breaks, strategies. A colour complex is strategical not tactical per se 

X_PLAYER_J_X
SuirenBoid wrote:

I just do not get it at all, could you please point out the similarities as I see no similar pawn breaks, strategies. A colour complex is strategical not tactical per se 

Don't listen to them. They are wrong! They are telling you incorrect information.

The pawn structure between the French Defense & Kings Indian Defense will never be the same.