King's Indian Vs. Nimzo Indian

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Avatar of Ziggy_Zugzwang

If I knew my opponent was an "Annoying d Pawn" player I would pick the KID. If he is a man and comes out fights with 1d & c4 the Nimzo - or at least try to.... The problem is actually knowing...

Perhaps OTB where the future opponents previous games are available for scrutiny, you can choose at that point.

Avatar of agisdon

Nice idea Ziggy_Zugzwang

Avatar of TwoMove

It's not really the Nimzo on it's own. Need something against 3Nf3 i.e (Queen's Indian, Bogo, QueensGambit). Also against the catalan 3g3, plus the queen pawn lines without c4, have more kick with e6 played early. All adds up to a lot of work.

Avatar of Justs99171

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Avatar of pfren
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

pfren, I think what he meant is that Black can play the same first 5 moves almost no matter what against any follow-up to d4.  The Nimzo that is not true.

For example:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.e3 d6 5.h3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.c3 d6

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.c3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6 (not the worst move ever) 3.Bxf6 exf6 followed by 4...Bg7 and 5...O-O

 

Notice how Black's moves are virtually the same as what he would play if White actually played the King's Indian.  It's not that the pawn structures are all the same because they aren't.  And, of course, you have to know how to follow up against each one.  He probably simply meant you don't have to think about the game until move 6 if you play the King's Indian.

Avatar of youainttakingmyqueen

agisdon wrote:

Which is better? Please leave your suggestions below!

agisdon wrote: Which is better? Please leave your suggestions below!

Avatar of Assasin14

Nimzo is obiviously better Carlsen plays it 

Avatar of Assasin14

Queens Indian is better than NID though

 

Avatar of Justs99171
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

You did not understand me at all. I am saying the King's Indian is too complicated for most people. But if someone plays the Colle or London, though, then the King's Indian set up is preferable.

Avatar of Justs99171
ThrillerFan wrote:
pfren wrote:
Justs99171 wrote:

I think this is simple. People should start learning the Nimzo Indian when they are about Intermediate level and the King's Indian much later. It's more complicated.

The Nimzo let's you play for a win without risking losing.

The strong point of the King's Indian D is that you can mostly follow through with the set up if white doesn't comply with 1.d4 and then 1.c4 ...

The Nimzo, white can evade in numerous ways.

Really? There are no less than eleven typical pawn structures for the King's Indian Defence, and each one of them requires completely different handling.

pfren, I think what he meant is that Black can play the same first 5 moves almost no matter what against any follow-up to d4.  The Nimzo that is not true.

For example:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 Bg7 4.e3 d6 5.h3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 Bg7 4.Nbd2 O-O 5.c3 d6

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.c3 O-O

1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 g6 (not the worst move ever) 3.Bxf6 exf6 followed by 4...Bg7 and 5...O-O

 

Notice how Black's moves are virtually the same as what he would play if White actually played the King's Indian.  It's not that the pawn structures are all the same because they aren't.  And, of course, you have to know how to follow up against each one.  He probably simply meant you don't have to think about the game until move 6 if you play the King's Indian.

That's mostly what I meant. I did not mean that you don't have to think about the game.

Avatar of geojem_63

Apples vs Oranges

Avatar of Sred
geojem_63 wrote:

Apples vs Oranges

Apples and Oranges have much, much more in common than most people seem to think. Also, it's totally sensible to compare them.

Avatar of indiaonsicily

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

Avatar of SuirenBoid

They are just different, I would suggest that the Nimzo is more flexible and gives white less options, vs the KID white has lots of options at his disposal. 

Avatar of SuirenBoid
indiaonsicily wrote:

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

That comment made no sense to me whatsoever, the KID and the French are not even slightly related, many d4,c4 openings can become blocked, including the Nimzo Indian, I would suggest the Nimzo is a much closer relative due to the pressure black puts on the centre and a vague similarity in pawn structure

Avatar of indiaonsicily

Whatever, KID is more attacking.  The downside is that you have to learn more theory to avoid a dumpster fire from 1800 onward

Avatar of Justs99171
SuirenBoid wrote:
indiaonsicily wrote:

KID is preferable for French players as in both openings the position is blocked 

 

P.S I myself play both the above mentioned openings

That comment made no sense to me whatsoever, the KID and the French are not even slightly related, many d4,c4 openings can become blocked, including the Nimzo Indian, I would suggest the Nimzo is a much closer relative due to the pressure black puts on the centre and a vague similarity in pawn structure

It makes plenty of since. He was just a little vague. What he meant to say wasn't "blocked," but that both openings involve middle games with pawn chains; so that pawn chain strategies become predominant and decisive.

Avatar of SuirenBoid

I guess, even if they tend to have an opposite colour strategy.

 

Avatar of Justs99171
SuirenBoid wrote:

I guess, even if they tend to have an opposite colour strategy.

 

There are certain strategical patterns regarding pawn chains and all pawn structures. Not all patterns in chess are tactical.