Learning the Sicilian defense, your advice please

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Avatar of mgx9600

I have no real strategy when it comes to 1. e4, and that means I usually waste a lot of time in the open.  So, I'm thinking about learning the Siciian defense, and , as you know, there are many variations.

 

Do I just pick 1 variation and learn it?  Or are all the Sicilians related enough such that I should be familiar with all those variations?

 

Or is there another defense that is easier?  Like the London system for white (I don't play it, just an example).  I'd like something solid to reply 1. e4.

Avatar of Yigor

U could choose Najdorf as the most popular Sicilian variation.  peshka.png

Avatar of mgx9600

If sicilian isn't the right defense for 1. e4 in your opinion; what would you suggest?  I'm very open to suggestions as I think I'm stuck currently.

 

I should probably mention why I'm looking into the Sicilian Defense.  One part is that I want something for 1. e4.  Another reason is that it is an aggressive defense.  I don't personally like very aggressive chess games because my tactics isn't good, but my son is very good at tactics so I thought this open might be good for him.

 

Avatar of mgx9600

I've not looked at the Najdorf.  The only variant that I've  looked at is the Open Sicilian.  The book (Chess Openings for kids) I have contiunes with Closed Sicilian and Grand Prix attack and Alapin sicilian.

 

I'm hoping to just study one of its variants and use it in every game.  I'll take a look at the Najdorf.

 

Avatar of OldPatzerMike
mgx9600 wrote:

I'm hoping to just study one of its variants and use it in every game. 

The problem with that is that there are a number of anti-Sicilians that White can use to keep you from getting to the variant you want to play. A partial list would include the Alapin, the Rossolimo, the Closed Sicilian, the Grand Prix Attack, the King's Indian Attack, the Smith-Morra Gambit, and the Wing Gambit. Thus, you could put in a lot of time and effort to learn how to play the Najdorf, for example, and rarely get a chance to play it.

If you settle on the Sicilian, DeirdreSkye correctly states that you should initially focus on the Scheveningen structure as it appears in a number of variants. It could in fact be thought of as the basic Open Sicilian structure. A good starting point for learning how to play the structure is Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess", which has a decent basic explanation of it.

If you want to look at alternatives, I would suggest either 1...e5 or 1...e6 as a response to 1. e4. The openings resulting from 1...e5 generally produce classical chess structures, while 1...e6 is of course the French Defense. Both moves can produce rich play from which you can learn a great deal.

Avatar of kindaspongey

Around 2010, IM John Watson wrote, "... For players with very limited experience, ... the Sicilian Defence ... normally leaves you with little room to manoeuvre and is best left until your positional skills develop. ... I'm still not excited about my students playing the Sicilian Defence at [the stage where they have a moderate level of experience and some opening competence], because it almost always means playing with less space and development, and in some cases with exotic and not particularly instructive pawn-structures. ... if you're taking the Sicilian up at [say, 1700 Elo and above], you should put in a lot of serious study time, as well as commit to playing it for a few years. ..."

Avatar of kindaspongey

Possibilities:

Starting Out: Open Games
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232452/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen134.pdf
Starting Out: Ruy Lopez
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627024240/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen53.pdf

First Steps: 1 e4 e5

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7790.pdf
The Petroff: Move by Move
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7530.pdf
Starting Out: The Sicilian
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627122350/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen123.pdf
First Steps: The French
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7611.pdf
Opening Repertoire: ...c6.
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7673.pdf
The Pirc: Move by Move
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7604.pdf
First Steps: The Modern
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7700.pdf
The Scandinavian: Move by Move
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626232217/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen171.pdf
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7270.pdf
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for Black
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9050.pdf
The Alekhine Defence: Move by Move
https://www.everymanchess.com/downloadable/download/sample/sample_id/69/

Avatar of Burke

Don't start with the Najdorf. Too complex. My suggestion would be that you spend some time playing against the sicilian with the white pieces to give you a feel for what black can and maybe can't do. You'll feel a bit more confident when you do those things yourself or you will, at least, learn what you should have done with white. 

Avatar of pfren
mgx9600 έγραψε:

If sicilian isn't the right defense for 1. e4 in your opinion; what would you suggest?  I'm very open to suggestions as I think I'm stuck currently.

 

I should probably mention why I'm looking into the Sicilian Defense.  One part is that I want something for 1. e4.  Another reason is that it is an aggressive defense.  I don't personally like very aggressive chess games because my tactics isn't good, but my son is very good at tactics so I thought this open might be good for him.

 

There are several sound openings to pick. One of the simplest, and a very sound one, is the Scandinavian.

You can look at a relatively rare line, 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8, which is MUCH better than its looks, and quite easy to learn (effectively all main lines are just a couple of different pawn structures). You can find free material on it by IM Bartholomew, at his site.

Avatar of perez1617
Hi
Avatar of greydayeveryday
French
Avatar of Kai_sa

When someone is this incompetent, it doesn't matter what opening they play. tongue.png

Avatar of pfren
DeirdreSkye έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
mgx9600 έγραψε:

If sicilian isn't the right defense for 1. e4 in your opinion; what would you suggest?  I'm very open to suggestions as I think I'm stuck currently.

 

I should probably mention why I'm looking into the Sicilian Defense.  One part is that I want something for 1. e4.  Another reason is that it is an aggressive defense.  I don't personally like very aggressive chess games because my tactics isn't good, but my son is very good at tactics so I thought this open might be good for him.

 

There are several sound openings to pick. One of the simplest, and a very sound one, is the Scandinavian.

You can look at a relatively rare line, 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd8, which is MUCH better than its looks, and quite easy to learn (effectively all main lines are just a couple of different pawn structures). You can find free material on it by IM Bartholomew, at his site.

 I am surprised from your answer.

You don't think that a novice must start with 1...e5 (against 1.e4) before he tries anything else? 

Isn't Scandinavian highly unorthodox for beginners?

Why unorthodox?

1. The lines to learn are very few: Either white plays 2.exd5, or he admits he has nothing.

2. The 3.d4 and 3.Nf3 lines are both met in a very simple & active way, which even a newbie can understand: ...Bg4, ...Nc6 and ...0-0-0 (under some move order).

3. In the main lines, Black has to know just two pawn structures:

 

 

(the second one occurs only if White drops in Bc4 early on).

Compared to 1...e5 it may be less active, but actually simpler to learn, and compared to e.g. the Petroff (which would be my second choice) the position is more asymmetrical (although not necessarily livelier!), and as such, it gives both sides more chances to go wrong.

Avatar of DragonPhoenixSlayer

The scandinavian is a very simple opening. White almost always responds the same way with slightly different move order. I don't have very much experience with the sicilian though. 

Avatar of pfren
DeirdreSkye έγραψε:

Unorthodox because novices are supposed to learn how to follow the rules before they play openings like Scandinavian that break the rules , no?

 

True. You break one rule: That of bringing out the Queen early. but there is certain positional compensation: You lessen white's central control while creating no weaknesses. 3...Qd8 admits that white has gained a full tempo, but puts the queen to a very safe square (compared to 3...Qa5 and 3...Qd6). And in the main line (which is 3...Qd8 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 c6) you nullify white's development advantage, but grant him the bishop pair. From that point, Black has just to catch up in development and not get greedy (e.g. 8.Bf4!? Qxd4? (8...e6! 9.0-0-0 Bb4! is correct) 9.Nb5! and Black is in deep trouble). Once you understand what you must do/ where to place your pieces, and what not in that typical Caro Kann pawn structure, Black should play the position with confidence.

Slightly better for white?

Probably yes.

How?

I really don't know...

White has more space, a bishop pair which is not terribly active, and no obvious targets to attack.

GM Shaw suggests as best in his recent white repertoire book the following game:

 

He stops after 14.g4, and claims that a d4 player would sell his house to get such a position.

I wouldn't do so, even if my house was 2 square meters large... White actually has very little, if anything.

Avatar of pfren
DeirdreSkye έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
DeirdreSkye έγραψε:

Unorthodox because novices are supposed to learn how to follow the rules before they play openings like Scandinavian that break the rules , no?

 

True. You break one rule: That of bringing out the Queen early. but there is certain positional compensation: You lessen white's central control while creating no weaknesses. 3...Qd8 admits that white has gained a full tempo, but puts the queen to a very safe square (compared to 3...Qa5 and 3...Qd6). And in the main line (which is 3...Qd8 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 c6) you nullify white's development advantage, but grant him the bishop pair. From that point, Black has just to catch up in development and not get greedy (e.g. 8.Bf4!? Qxd4? (8...e6! 9.0-0-0 Bb4! is correct) 9.Nb5! and Black is in deep trouble). Once you understand what you must do/ where to place your pieces, and what not in that typical Caro Kann pawn structure, Black should play the position with confidence.

Slightly better for white?

Probably yes.

How?

I really don't know...

White has more space, a bishop pair which is not terribly active, and no obvious targets to attack.

GM Shaw suggests as best in his recent white repertoire book the following game:

 

He stops after 14.g4, and claims that a d4 player would sell his house to get such a position.

I wouldn't do so, even if my house was 2 square meters large... White actually has very little, if anything.

     I never doubted Scandinavian's playability. I was doubting it's instructive value for beginners. A very good trainer I met  suggests 1...e5 only for beginners. Is he wrong? 

Nope, of course he isn't.  But learning to play 1...e5 properly rquires much more effort. Learning 1...e5 will likely be more useful whenever he becomes a Grandmaster- if ever, while the 3...Qd8 Scandinavian will be useful to him to beat Caruana- if he changes his name to Magnus.

Whenever I wanted to avoid much theory as Black, I opted for the Petroff, and scored OTB remarkably badly (or well, it depends on your ambitions): No losses, six wins and 45 draws. With hindsight, I guess I would have done better with the 3...Qd8 Scandi.

Avatar of Robhad

I prefer 1...c6 to 1...c5 against 1. e4. But it's all a ,matter of taste.

Avatar of mgx9600

Thanks guys.  Much to think about.

 

Avatar of poucin

If u want something solid, the best sicilian in my opinion is accelerated dragon.

Simple to learn and easy to play.

Najdorf, Scheveninguen, Paulsen, Svechnikov, etc... Forget about it, u will suffer many painful defeats without learning anything (or let's say learning to lose).

Personnally, I don't like to advocate sicilian : 1...e5, 1...e6, 1...d5 are more easy to handle and more instructive.

Avatar of godsofhell1235

When I was new I picked the Sicilian because that's what Kasparov played, so that means it's good right?

But then I switched to ...e5 and enjoyed it much more.

Don't pick an opening because of move 1. Play over top level games and pick an opening because you like what you see on move 10, 15, 20 i.e. the middlegame.

For example the recent Tata Steel tournament (picking a historical match or tournament is fine too).
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=92172

Just click through the games quickly. 15 minutes a day and you'll have played through the whole tournament in 1 week. Just to get a feeling for what kinds of middlegames are out there. If you see something you like, pick that opening.

My 2 cents.