Lolli and Fried liver Attacks: Are they Playable?

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Avatar of jacobhrobertson

Been toying around with both of these openings recently, and have had pretty good success with them, but I'm worried that I simply haven't played opponents who know the refutations. Anybody have thoughts on them? Here's a game I played today: What could the opponent have done to stop the attack?

Avatar of 9thEagle

If you don't know whether it's playable, then it probably is. If you can't refute it, then it is unlikely that your opponent will. Everything's playable at some rating (I once saw a guy play a fool's mate because he had to go somewhere and wanted his opponent to win quickly, but his opponent didn't even see it). Until you start playing opponents that the openings don't work on (probably in the 1200-1500 range), then yes, they're absolutely playable.

Avatar of pfren
jacobhrobertson wrote:

What could the opponent have done to stop the attack?

You will learn soon, when you play against a stronger opponent.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

he could have played knight to a5 instead of knight takes on d5. Usually i never get knight takes d5 on the board, usually my opponents all play knight to a5 or knight to d4.

Avatar of TetsuoShima

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Knights_Defense,_Fried_Liver_Attack

Avatar of shepi13
coneheadzombie wrote:

26. Qd3#. If you can't see that, forget the openings.

Lol, when looking over the game I was thinking, "Why not 26. Qd3+ skewering the queen?"

I didn't even notice it was mate Laughing

Avatar of pfren

For the record, I have played as Black 5...Nd4 (5...b5 is more or less the same thing) for decades, and have an almost perfect score with it. However, I think that 5...Nxd5 is better, at least practically- 5...Nd4 is definitely bad.

5...Na5! is best of course, but 5...Nxd5 is better than most people believe. With best play (Lolli's 6.d4!) white has no more than a moderate advantage, and the critical position is not well analysed yet (Houdini looking at it casually claims Black is equal, which is surely wrong).

Avatar of AKJett

i had played a game against pfren and lost badly in the fried liver but i dont have the game anymore do u have it pfren?

Avatar of pfren

Yes, I do have it. Here it is:

Not very interesting, factly I barely played a move of my own... this variation has been analysed at Chesspub, and found unacceptable for White. 9.a3? is just a bad move, but white can keep the game rolling by other means (9.Qe4, 9.0-0 or 9.Bb3).

Avatar of NimzoRoy

Courtesy of Dan Heisman (I just put his article into pgn format):

http://www.chess.com/blog/NimzoRoy/fried-liver-attack?_domain=old_blog_host&_parent=old_frontend_blog_view

Avatar of madhacker

Does 11. Bxd5+ instead of Nxd5 give white anything?

11.. Ke7?? 12. Qf7+ Kd6 13. Ne4#

11.. Kd7 12. Qf5+ Kd6 13. Qf7, how does the king escape?

11.. Kd6 12. Qf7, as above?

Avatar of nebunulpecal

These two openings have horrible names. Just because of this I wouldn't play them in hell. When I was a kid I had Black in that variation of the Italian Game that you call "The F&%# L&*% Attack" and I beat the guy!

Avatar of pfren
madhacker wrote:

Does 11. Bxd5+ instead of Nxd5 give white anything?

11.. Ke7?? 12. Qf7+ Kd6 13. Ne4#

11.. Kd7 12. Qf5+ Kd6 13. Qf7, how does the king escape?

11.. Kd6 12. Qf7, as above?

11...Kd7 12.Qf5+ Kd6 13.Qf7 Qe7 is resignable.

Avatar of madhacker

True, queen on Qe7 allows the king to escape to d7, didn't see that.

Avatar of mahen2

Lolli is much better than liver

Avatar of AKJett

my rating increased 170 points since then!