Most Instructive Openings?

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WilliamShookspear

Hi all,

So, it's recently come to my attention that my ability to plan in the middlegame is not up to scratch. I embark on some sort of plan I WANT to do, instead of playing what the board suggests that I do. 

Part of my plan in addressing that is to expose myself to different kinds of opening ideas and themes, preferably from both sides, to expand my knowledge database. To do this, I would ideally

1) Pick an opening (or line thereof) to study. (1 for white, 2 for Black)

2) Learn the basic themes and ideas, from master games, or youtube, or both. (Maybe play over 1 master game a day and spot the key themes)

3) Play it every day, keeping in mind the plans for both sides.

4) After a month or so, switch.

The benefits of this method would be that, for one, I get a better understanding of a broader range of positions, and secondly, I am able to take stock of what I like

Obviously, I would not do this with every opening in chess, because I would die either of old age, or of heart attack while trying to memorize the 30 move theory of the mainline Najdorf. I am looking for openings that are plan based, and relatively simple, while still being solid.

My list of candidates so far:

White 1.e4
Against 1...e5

Giuoco Piano
Scotch Game
Scotch Gambit



Against 1...c5
I think there are so many Sicilian lines than learning all of them is silly. Learning White's and Black's general ideas in the mainlines should be sufficient. I'll experiment with English Attack-like formations, formations with 0-0 and f4... Other suggestions are appreciated here.

Against 1...e6

Steinitz Variation

Tarrasch Variation



I'll treat everything else as it comes up, if it comes up.

White 1.d4

Catalan

Setups with 2.c4 3.Nf3 4.Nc3 5.Bg5 6.e3

Setups with ^^^ 5.Bf4

London

White 1.c4

Botvinnik English

Black against 1.e4

1...e5 2.Nf3 Nc6

Petroff

French

Caro Kann, 4...Bf5/Nd7

I'm forgoing Sicilians because what a headache. Plans seem to come second to memorization in the mainlines. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Black against 1.d4 

QGD, Lasker

QGD, Tartakower

Semi-Slav, Meran

Slav, Czech Variation

Blumenfeld Countergambit

KID with usual kingside storm plans. We'll see how that goes.

Okay, so that's a lot; looking at about 10 months, But during those 10 months I hope I will learn a lot from the patterns that arise from my games, and that I look over in master games.

So my questions I guess are a) is this a waste of time, and b) what do you think I could add or subtract?

Cheers, 

William

WilliamShookspear

Bumping

cchheessss1237

Difficult task to do. I would go with what the title says and pick the most instructive openings. As black why not play the Philidor Defense: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 (this is the correct move order). This will help you since the position will remain closed right to the middlegame so it is all about plans. Of course it has it's sharp lines too and the queen trade after 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8 6.Bc4 Ke8 is perfectly fine (though if you don't like it 3...Nbd7 avoids it while allowing other options). Against 1.d4 the Nimzo-Indian is most instructive, and I like to pair it with the Ragozin QGD. As white I like the Catalan which is very ideas-based and in which plans revolve around the fianchettoed bishop - you can consider reaching it with 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 Be7 (4...dxc4 5.Qa4+) 5.O-O O-O 6.d4. If you learn these properly you won't need to learn all the others.

cchheessss1237

However, the opening is not the solution to get better at positional chess - reading books about positional chess can be of use

HorribleTomato
Scotch gambit! Some endgame stuff, attacking, and even defending in some lines! Also positional. :)
ThrillerFan

You've got more to do.


For example, after 1.c4, the Botvinnik setup is garbage against the Symmetrical or Indian setups.  It only works against Reversed Closed Sicilian type positions.  For example, after 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.e4 d6 6.d3, where Black has options here, White is fine.  He fianchettoed the Bishop and played e5, where the Bishop is passive.

 

However!

 

1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7, the move 5.e4 is extremely dubious, and does nothing but weaken d4 with an open Bishop with full scope sitting on g7.  Black should avoid ...e5 here!

ThrillerFan

In addition, you have the following to worry about:

 

Semi-Slav - You have Anti-Meran Systems, specifically 5.Bg5 being the biggest one!  You either would need to study the Botvinnik (5...dxc4) or Moscow (5...h6)

 

King's Indian - You can't bank on a Kingside Pawn Storm.  Only works in the main line classical lines.  The Four Pawns Attack leads to a Kingside Attack for White, as does the Saemisch.  In the Fianchetto, storming the Kingside is going to do nothing but weaken your King because the center is not blocked.  It's fluid, and so your king will die!  The Petrosian Variation also prevents Black from storming the Kingside unless he wants to die (as in his King gets killed).

 

So you will need to severely change the mentality if you try to take up the King's Indian Defense.  I speak as one that has played the King's Indian a lot, as well as the Semi-Slav, Slav, and QGD lines.

 

Where I can't help you in terms of QP Defenses is the Grunfeld.  Not my cup of tea at all!

WilliamShookspear
cchheessss1237 wrote:

Difficult task to do. I would go with what the title says and pick the most instructive openings. As black why not play the Philidor Defense: 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 (this is the correct move order). This will help you since the position will remain closed right to the middlegame so it is all about plans. Of course it has it's sharp lines too and the queen trade after 4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8+ Kxd8 6.Bc4 Ke8 is perfectly fine (though if you don't like it 3...Nbd7 avoids it while allowing other options). Against 1.d4 the Nimzo-Indian is most instructive, and I like to pair it with the Ragozin QGD. As white I like the Catalan which is very ideas-based and in which plans revolve around the fianchettoed bishop - you can consider reaching it with 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 Be7 (4...dxc4 5.Qa4+) 5.O-O O-O 6.d4. If you learn these properly you won't need to learn all the others.

I appreciate your input but, my hope is not to pick a repertoire, but to learn ideas in different structures, so that I can expand my knowledge base. Therefore, picking only one or two to learn sort of defeats the point. 

I will take your opening recommendations under consideration. I don't like the Philidor… So maybe I will give it a spin for that reason. 

Plus I will make the Ragozin part of my QGD adventures.

Thanks for commenting!

WilliamShookspear
HorribleTomato wrote:
Scotch gambit! Some endgame stuff, attacking, and even defending in some lines! Also positional. :)

It's on my list, because it's fun, and not unsound. grin.png Thanks!

WilliamShookspear
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got more to do.


For example, after 1.c4, the Botvinnik setup is garbage against the Symmetrical or Indian setups.  It only works against Reversed Closed Sicilian type positions.  For example, after 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.e4 d6 6.d3, where Black has options here, White is fine.  He fianchettoed the Bishop and played e5, where the Bishop is passive.

 

However!

 

1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7, the move 5.e4 is extremely dubious, and does nothing but weaken d4 with an open Bishop with full scope sitting on g7.  Black should avoid ...e5 here!

This reply can be applied to both of your comments.

This is exactly the reason I want to learn this stuff! I want to know what is a reasonable plan, and what makes it so. I've learned the positional maxims but I have trouble figuring out how they translate into actual games. 

Yes, I'm aware of the many White replies to the Slav, and I intend to learn a response if and when they come up. But I'm not fussed about winning or losing as much as I am about learning the patterns and ideas behind the moves. 

Thanks a lot for your helpful input. It's easier when someone's pointed out some of the obstacles. 

WilliamShookspear

Giving another bump...

staples13

Against the Sicilian you should play the Alapin (2. C3)as the sharp games that result are highly instructive 

WilliamShookspear
staples13 wrote:

Against the Sicilian you should play the Alapin (2. C3)as the sharp games that result are highly instructive 

I will consider it, thanks. I guess I tend to shy away from the Alapin because I don't see it as giving white much. But maybe that's why I should play it! 

blueemu

There's nothing wrong with the Closed Sicilian.

The2DarkKnights

Berlin defence and nimzo indian are a must

WilliamShookspear
blueemu wrote:

There's nothing wrong with the Closed Sicilian.

True. I might take it into consideration, after I've learned the ideas in the mainlines; the patterns aren't as common in the Closed.

WilliamShookspear
The2DarkKnights wrote:

Berlin defence and nimzo indian are a must

Agreed. The Ragozin is probably going to be my Nimzo, simply because there are SO many ideas in the mainlines.

Alltheusernamestaken

This is ridicously stupid to have so many openings to learn. Just choose one d4 or one e4 for white, if you chose e4 then learn another against the sicilian. Black learn against e4 d4 and c4

staples13
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:

This is ridicously stupid to have some openings to learn. Just choose one d4 or one e4 for white, if you chose e4 then learn another against the sicilian. Black learn against e4 d4 and c4

Hi Friend!! How are you?

Alltheusernamestaken
staples13 wrote:
Alltheusernamestaken wrote:

This is ridicously stupid to have some openings to learn. Just choose one d4 or one e4 for white, if you chose e4 then learn another against the sicilian. Black learn against e4 d4 and c4

Hi Friend!! How are you?

Hi mate