Need backup for Caro-Kann?

you can't go wrong with 1...e5

OK, here are my thoughts.

1. The easiest path to becoming an NM strength player is to find one opening as black against e4, d4, c4, Nf3, etc -- and learn it well. That way, I will be theoretically prepared against players of equal or higher rating. In my opinion, it is difficult to achieve this level of understanding in multiple openings, and might I say not the best way to spend your time. It is much more important to study endgames than openings, and middlegame strategy and tactics. I just don't consider it that important, to be a theoretician in more openings than necessary.

2. The French is a counterattacking opening, kind of like the Sicilian in a sense, but doesn't give black as much a share of the center (from my admittedly poor viewpoint). But the reason I chose the Caro-Kann, long ago, was that when you play the French against lower rated players, you probably have to play 50% exchange variations. Not my idea of fun.

3. If you play e4 e5, you've got to instantly be familiar with all sorts of tricky white openings (King's gambit, Two Knight's/Giuoco, Ponziani, Four Knights, etc.) -- in addition to knowing a little thing or two about the Ruy Lopez. Granted -- I may know more about many of those openings than some 1300 player on chess.com, but I want to find something that suits my type of position, where I don't give too much up to the 1800s and 1900s, out of the opening.

Along similar lines, what positions do Black Caro-Kann players usually aim towards? I often go for the centre white-pawn triangle, a Nd7 the bishop aiming at c2, then a c5 pawn advance. If it's left alone by White, I'll often advance it to c4 and garner a massive maneouvering ground on the queenside.

White nearly always plays the f4 pawn forward before playing Nf3, exchanges off the white squared bishops, and attacks on the kingside.

After Bd3, Bxd3, Qxd3, c4, the tempo from the pawn advance attacking the queen gives time to gain space on the queenside. This position can become locked in for a while, or be very destructive, depending on white's response to the situation.

Any thoughts from other Caro-Kanners?

I also play the Caro-Kann equally well along with the French and the Sicilian Sveshnikov.  I love to study openings and usually vary what I play.  I would seriously consider studying the French.  While it may give White more space, Black can counterattack it real effectively.  There are some very attacking and sharp lines and there are some really locked and positional struggles in the French.  Truly, in the French, there is something for everybody.  It is one of the reasons I quit playing e4.

gabrielconroy: You are talking about the Caro-Kann advance variation, it sounds like. The thematic way to approach the Bd3 plan by white is to play ...Qa5+ and ...Qa6 (first done by Nimzowitch I think, not sure though). Also, an early f4 by white can be met strongly by ...h5 I believe. For example

e4 c6
d4 d5
e5 Bf5
Nf3 e6
Bd3 Bxd3
Qxd3 Qa5+
c3 Qa6!

e4 c6
d4 d5
e5 Bf5
Bd3 Bxd3
Qxd3 e6
f4 Qa5+
c3 Qa6!

e4 c6
d4 d5
e5 Bf5
f4 h5
Bd3 Bxd3
Qxd3 e6

As for the original question, if you're simply looking for a backup opening, maybe some Scandinavian branch is an idea, as the pawn structure is similar to the Caro Kann's, the theory is not too large, and the opening is still slightly unpopular at your level, so you probably don't run the risk to be overprepared.

Specifically, I think the variation played by Tiviakov (1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd6) is an interesting choice.

Kamsky-Tiviakov 0-1

Anand-Tiviakov 1/2

Interesting - thanks!

While on Caro-Kann, let me warn readers of a blunder in MCO-14: (the panov-botvinnik-attack variation)

p. 182 endnote (j)(B). MCO-14 (Nick di Fermian) says "black lands in trouble after.. [1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5] 6..dxc4 7. Bxc4 Qxd4 8. Qxd4 Nxd4 9. O-O-O e5 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Bxf6  gxf6 (the line goes on until white's 14th with a +- eval: Ginzberg-Salas Argentina 1991)].

[I had omitted to put in 4.c4 above - corrected now]

Fermian missed the obvious 11..Nxb5 12. Bxe5 f6 =+ or -+. And so did I, in an ongoing game, because I was blindly following MCO :(.
(Opp of course played the natural and correct 11..Nxb5 but luckily missed 12...f6 so it is '=' now..)

And MCO-14 claims to be computer-checked! Maybe so, but beware, the footnotes/endnotes are NOT computer-checked or even human-checked!

Looks like he just quoted the only game in online DB with 10.Bb5ch. This doesn't look like a very good move to be honest, probably 10Nf3 better. (Also would have prefered Botvinnik's 7.d5. He lost with this in first game of match with Flohr, but won in the ninth game. Basically when somebody like Botvinnik goes knocking on your door the second time, it is best not to be at home .)

Right, TwoMove - I thoght exactly that - Fermian got lazy and picked up this only-database-game without even looking at it - 10.Bb5+ looks meaningless actually. [I did double-check the move before making it: but all I got online was the same game ]

[I checked english and spanish language databases actually, found only Ginzberg-Salas]

You people of the non-english-speaking world are luckier ;)
(You are from Denmark, opp (kosmeg) in that game is from greece)

 MCO is not like a bible to you people

And i have noted down '7.d5 (botvinnik-flohr 1-0)' in my copy of MCO-14, on that endnote - thanks, TwoMove!

I'm not a very strong player; but I wish I was the first to offer d5.  Players of your strength might do well by being innovative.  Like answering e5 with d5, a6, or even h5.  This can also lead you into pushing someone into an unfavorable pose (like Lasker did).  You might be a strong Hedgehog player as well.

Well I now play only 10-14-days/move games here - max. 4 at a time -  so in my games I can't surprise opps and opps can't surprise me. [My mistake in this game was speeding through the first 11 moves in 10 minutes]

Anyway, that paricular game is a panov-botvinnik thematic - its starting position is 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.c4. I started playing it to illustrate P-B against the CK. So I was sticking to the 'book' - it being a demo game rather than competitive as far as I was concerned, even though it is rated - only  I forgot that my opp took me out of the 'book' proper and into 'endnotes' :)

My opp is young: he has the desire to win. I have seen enough of life to desire co-operation rather than competition. Perhaps chess is no longer the game for me. Chess history, yes. Chess problems, yes. Competitive chess games, maybe no more after running games are over..

I've played and play the O'kelly sicilian occasionally - I like it. I won't play it against a 2200+ here though - it is relatively easy to prepare against it - even I am prepared against it... - and I stopped being a serious chess player in 1982. [In fact I don't remember NOT getting a good middlegame as white against it :)]

The french is too serious for me now. Used to play it as main weapon against e4 until 1982. I don't play it at all now.

The centre counter - which now has this fancy name Scandinavian ... all right, I'll say charitably that I dont want opp to reach middlegame so comfortably as the c.c. allows.

normajean: That is an interesting point, that you don't want the opponent to reach as comfortable a middlegame as what the Centre Counter allows -- in a sense though this is exactly what the Caro-Kann allows. Not exactly, but close. For example:

e4 c6 d4 d5 Nc3 dxe4 Nxe4 Nd7 Nf3 Ngf6 Nxf6+ Nxf6 Bd3 Bg4 c3 e6 o-o Qc7 Bg5 Be7 Re1 o-o

Ozzie, but I do not play the Caro-Kann! Centre Counter and Caro Kann - Never!

I posted what I play against the Caro-Kann [1] - Panov-Botvinnik always.

[1] I can't stop opp from playing CC or CK against me , isn't it. :)

FWIW, MCO-15 (The Revised Standard Bible) has changed the note to read (pg 186, note (j) -- "Riskier are ... (B) 6...dxc4 7. Bxc4! Qxd4 8. Qxd4 Nxd4 9. 0-0-0 e5  10. f4 Bg4  11. Nf3 Nxf3  12.gxf3 Bxf3 13. dxe5 Bxh1  14. exf6 +/= Grischuk - Bareev Moscow  2004"

But you were commenting on one relative disadvantage of playing the Center Counter... isn't a fair follow-up Q whether you feel the same way about the C-K?

:-)

shambo wrote:

The O'kelly sicilian is what I recommend (1.e4c5 2.Nf3 a6)

I find it interesting, and the c4 advance is playable in it, eventually.

The O'Kelly is an excellent surprise weapon - its only drawback as a 2nd opening is that it allows the full bunch of Anti-Sicilians, and thus requires lots of preparation...