NEED HELP : Attacking Lines in French defense for black

Sort:
PRI-23019278

hello. i posted something simmilar to this. i asked for attacking lines in the french for black not for white. anyways thanks for the advice in the last post. can anyone give me attacking lines in french defense for black?

ThrillerFan

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

DooDallyDaddy
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

I wouldn't say that, it is true that it is defensive to begin with, but later you have to start attacking or else you will get beaten soundly. Really the best way to play the french is to try to break down white's center via c5 and f6 at some point, but that takes time and patience. 

ThrillerFan
DooDallyDaddy wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

I wouldn't say that, it is true that it is defensive to begin with, but later you have to start attacking or else you will get beaten soundly. Really the best way to play the french is to try to break down white's center via c5 and f6 at some point, but that takes time and patience. 

Well, yes, you don't just sit there passively and do nothing.  There is a major difference between "Defensive" and "Passive".

Black has to chip away at the White center, as you mention with c5 and f6, and patience is required.

He sounds like he wants to be going after the White King immediately like Black does in say, the Dragon.  Black will never get that luxury in the French.  It's about defending your King while you chip away at the center, and winning the endgame, very similar to the White side of the King's Indian Mar Del Plata.  White's idea is slow - rip up Black's Queenside, and eventually create a passed pawn.  He must defend his King from Black's onslaught.  White has no aggressive onslaught in the Classical King's Indian.  White's advantages are long term, not short term.  The same can be said about the Black side of the French Defense.  Black doesn't play passive, but Black's trumps are long term, not short term.  The player with the short term advantage has to attack immediately, the one with the long term advantage defends he attack and tries for a favorable endgame.  The French is the latter from Black's perspective.

Robert_New_Alekhine
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

I tend to disagree here. The french is all about counterattack, just like the Sicilian. In many lines, black attacks on the queenside, while white attacks on the kingside.

The Winawer variation (3.Nc3 Bb4) gives black a superb attacking position if white enters the poison pawn (see below). 

I actually consider the french better than other openings (ok, maybe I'm a little biased here) because it shows improving players how to play 

  • Tactically
  • Strategically
  • Positionally
  • How to Attack

Here are two positions, one which is wholly on the strategic side, while the other one is wholly on the tactical side:

Both teach you something about the different styles of chess, strategic and tactical.


tmkroll

There are lines like the Winawer and MacCutcheon, though. Pretty much anything where Black doesn't clarify the center him/herself can be a sharp counter-attacking game. I guess White can avoid these lines but the Advance is pretty easy to deal with and the Tarrasch seesm pretty slow from the White perspective. Black has options, though.

tmkroll

(Robert posted while I was writing)

DooDallyDaddy

I think it depends on how you play the french. I myself usually play f6 at some point and use the semi open f file to start a kingside attack, and it turns out to be a fairly decent way to play. But if that doesn't turn out well then I can revert back to the queenside and attack there. 

In all I would say that it is not the easiest defense to attack your oponents king with, but it is possible and is often done. 

ThrillerFan
Robert0905 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

I tend to disagree here. The french is all about counterattack, just like the Sicilian. In many lines, black attacks on the queenside, while white attacks on the kingside.

The Winawer variation (3.Nc3 Bb4) gives black a superb attacking position if white enters the poison pawn (see below). 

I actually consider the french better than other openings (ok, maybe I'm a little biased here) because it shows improving players how to play 

Tactically Strategically Positionally How to Attack

Here are two positions, one which is wholly on the strategic side, while the other one is wholly on the tactical side:

 
 

Both teach you something about the different styles of chess, strategic and tactical.


I am well aware of that line, and faced it twice in 2012, drawing one and winning the other, despite the fact that I should have won both...time trouble caused me to miss a tactical combination in the first game that wins, but the second game, despite being a tactical line by your standards, a positional idea, cutting the King off from the passed pawns, wins the game for White.

http://www.ncchess.org/wordpress/2012/02/deja-vu/

 

Of course, I don't play this line any more as my true strength lies in the Advance Variation.

The poisoned pawn in general has been under a cloud for a decade or longer because White's attack is faster.  Black really can't afford to play like this and expect to succeed aganst a legitimate opponent (1...h5 could be played against a patzer).

 

To succeed in the French, you can't treat it the same way you treat the Najdorf Sicilian.  Sure it's more aggressive than say, the Petroff, but still the most "attacking" lines for Black, if White plays correctly, do nothing more than blow up in Black's face!

TheOldReb

If you are a french defense fan I highly recommend the books on the french by Moskalenko . 

ChessBrilliancy38
Robert0905 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

You've got the wrong opening - The French is all about stout defense and figuring on a better endgame if you can weather the storm and avoid specifically the White Knight vs Black Light Squared Bishop ending.  Black's pawn structure is almost always better than White's in an Endgame from the French.

If defense is not your thing, the French ain't for you.  It's full of tactics, but it's a defensive opening, not a counter-attacking opening like say, the Najdorf or Dragon.

I tend to disagree here. The french is all about counterattack, just like the Sicilian. In many lines, black attacks on the queenside, while white attacks on the kingside.

The Winawer variation (3.Nc3 Bb4) gives black a superb attacking position if white enters the poison pawn (see below). 

I actually consider the french better than other openings (ok, maybe I'm a little biased here) because it shows improving players how to play 

Tactically Strategically Positionally How to Attack

Here are two positions, one which is wholly on the strategic side, while the other one is wholly on the tactical side:

 
 

Both teach you something about the different styles of chess, strategic and tactical.


I think the Poisoned Pawn variation is risky to play. It's not even guaranteed if Black gains compensation for the lost pawn. I wouldn't play it.

Robert_New_Alekhine

That depends. It gives many very nice attacks. Of course you have to have the correct style to play it. Wherever you are positional or tactical, the French is for you!

TheOldReb

The french PPV is risky , to be sure but black does better in it than in the dragon sicilian , which is even more risky .  

TheOldReb

Also in the french PPV as black I prefer 7 Qg4  cxd4 rather than 7... Qc7 . 

ChessBrilliancy38

That also applies to Poisoned Pawn variations in other openings. They often lead to EXTREMELY complex positions. Both sides have numerous threats. For players who aren't advanced, such variations aren't recommended.