Need help on KINGS INDIAN DEFENCE. .?? - Chess Forums - Page 3

Nb3d2

Aug 22, 2014

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#41

OldChessDog wrote:

Sac4win wrote:

Hello Guys,

I have been playing chess for around 2 years and I want to play KID.

Can someone please share basic ideas for Black in Kings Indian? How to play diffident variations, maybe few sample games wherein Black won the game..?

Hey! Have I got a video for you! Alisa Melekhina's video on the KID is great. The KID is a very interesting opening, and I've had good results with it. Here is a You Tube introduction to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkLIT6Gsjsk

Here's a game I played utilizing the KID: http://www.chess.com/blog/OldChessDog/quotheres-looking-at-you-kidquot

Funny, she mentioned the Piket - Kasparov Tilburg 1989 which I have posted earlier in page 1 of this thread. That is a very popular Classical KID and was played by GM So as white.

Nb3d2

Aug 22, 2014

0

#42

hijodeluna wrote:

pfren wrote:

Sac4win wrote:

So basically for playing KID, How many sub variation I must know? Since google it there are many small sub variations.

For starters, none, actually. You just MUST get familiar with the most common KID pawn structures, and understand the underlying plans for Black, and white. This is the right method- the only problem being that the typical KID structures are quite a lot.

I have never played the KID in my life as Black (or almost never), since it does require a lot of work to play it properly, and I am a lazy guy.

pfren and I have had differences in the past in some discussions, but this time I will use what he said to provide some advice which can only help you.

He said KID is a lot of work, and there is not a shadow of a doubt here about that. Who has the memory and the time and the energy to go about tackling what's needed to learn KID? Very few do. Effor level to effort level, both being the same, White has a down hill trip to do, VERY VERY freaking EASY !! Black has not gotten what White learns with not even half the effort a player with the White pieces needs to execute to learn how to play his side of the KID. It is a very steep uphill trip for Black to learn it.

If you want a learning experience with the KID, get some great reference material (including, but not limited to, complete games) and even watch lots of YouTube videos on the matter, and then use it in correspondence or turn-based online chess games with about 5 days per move. Use it on LIVE server and you will see White has a much easier time to play it to the point you might very well just end up discouraged and waste your time.

Here is a game, again from the 6.h3 (Makagonov) variation used by White, in the KID. Black was suffocated early, slowly, and RELENTLESSLY !

IT IS THE WORST BEATING I have seen by White with two players being of this level.

I don't understand 29 ... Na6 move of black, where white wins a R for a N. Just note at that level a simple mistake such as a4 of black can mean a win or lose, not very clear for engines that a4 is a mistake, but it is a long term weakness which gave white a winning game. Otherwise this looks like a dead locked down drawn position, if not for the weak a4 push of black.

AKAL1

Aug 22, 2014

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#43

Black ovbiously had to break to queenside with c6 at some point, no?

AKAL1

Aug 22, 2014

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#44

I agree, but I have had satisfactory results with it even before I became an expert

AKAL1

Aug 22, 2014

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#45

Not at first look, but I feel it allows black to play Nc7 defending theholes and to get counterplay on the c-file. Complications following are beyond my ability

bangalore2

Aug 22, 2014

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#46

Not necessarily, in the game Kortchnoi-Williams, if bxc6, dx would be strong for Black. I will provide a link.

WhatIsThisHereNow

Aug 22, 2014

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#47

Let me improve Kotronias´ play and explain some ideas in the opening part of the game posted by pfren:

WhatIsThisHereNow

Aug 23, 2014

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#48

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...)

6.h3 is the Makagonov, and 5.h3 still leaves the door open to the Averbach system. With the Nf3 in place and the pawn on h3, or, again, 6.h3 that is the Makagonov starting position.

(...)

Thanks.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

Analyzing the game is not the point.

This is the point, again, and please focus - " (...)

You say that analyzing is not the point and then, right after, you say, "please focus"?

Think about what you say.

Analyzing the game is the point. Analyzing the game is focusing.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...) "... let's stick to the big picture.

(...)

I dont care for "big picture"s. You can diskuss hours and hours about big pictures without ever beeing able to prove the truth ore falsedom of such a big picture which just exists in the head.

Big Pictures give no results.

Free your mind from big pictures.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...)

For anything lower than an expert or so, the KID is quite a daunting task to learn well. (...)

That is not even a big picture.

It is completely useless.

Free your mind from it.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...)

I would say it is a lot easier to understand what White was GOING TO DO in that game than what is Black going to do in that game without the advantage of analyzing and analyzing the game."

(...)

You would say. Ok, that is true for you.

But that does not mean that it is it true for everyone.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...)

That is applicable to both games, both examples.

(...)

Analyzing the game is irrelevant. The point is that it is much more difficult to handle the black side of the KID than it is to handle the White side. Please read the post I made above where I back what pfren (the IM) was saying.

That's all there is to it.

So you say, "stop doing things because the big picture in my mind says that is too difficult.".

You are dangerous.

hijodeluna hat geschrieben:

(...)

That's all there is to it.

There is much more to it. It has to do with big pictures in your mind.

WhatIsThisHereNow

Aug 23, 2014

0

#49

Let me make it clear:

If you stop doing things because they are difficult, then you lose.

Till_98

Aug 23, 2014

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#50

I will post some lines and ideas later. Annoying how many people have no clue what they are talking about here and just make wrong suggestions...

Nb3d2

Aug 23, 2014

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#51

I don't know about you guys, but I like KID as black. i like to play KID against d4 players if OTB. But online, I play Nimzo or Benoni against d4 players.

TwoMove

Aug 24, 2014

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#52

Frankly speaking diffferent people get different things from a thread. If the orginal question isn't very interesting for me, will enage with what find interesting. So I found the analysis of the Kotronias game interesting so would focus on that.

I get lessons from another IM, who recommends playing KID for black, largely because it promotes active play. It's a matter of opinion whether easier for white at a certain level of play. The standard f5-f4, which scares a lot of 1.d4 club players, certainly isn't conceptually difficult. I expect there is a lot both sides won't get in a ~FIDE 2000 game. When play significantly stronger players expect to learn by losing, as would with any opening.

For people who find concrete analysis interesting Watson as compared various KingsIndian books here

http://theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/john-watson-book-review-113-kings-indian-part-2

TheBlueRook75

Aug 24, 2014

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#53

@sac4win: Here is a game that KID helped me to win against a player who is 100 points above me, it was the main line and most of the ideas I learned from the article that I mentioned few posts ago, I hope that it encourges you to adopt KID in your repertoir, have fun:

TheBlueRook75

Aug 24, 2014

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#54

And since you like to sac., you will love the idea that I sacced a pawn to get a good king side attack -:)

Sac4win

Aug 26, 2014

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#55

Thanks blue rook

TheBlueRook75

Aug 26, 2014

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#56

You welcome!

CASTOFCLOWNS

Jan 11, 2015

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#57

http://www.theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/john-watson-book-review-112-kings-indian-part-i

http://www.theweekinchess.com/john-watson-reviews/john-watson-book-review-113-kings-indian-part-2

might be of help.... keep those bishops fianchettoed