Never ending search: what to play as White...

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Avatar of VLaurenT
NimzoDave wrote:

The DVD by Nigel Davies? Anyone? Seems very promising, according to this http://www.chesscafe.com/cbcafe/cbcafe.htm 

Nf3+b3 is perfectly respectable and Davies is a good author when it comes to slightly offbeat systems, so you can certainly follow his advice.

Avatar of daturadream23
Hey nimzodave, It's funny because I can completely relate to what you wrote about non forcing play and transpositional opportunities. I think I play very much in the same fashion. With that being said, I'd argue 1.Nf3 is the least committal and most transpositional opening move for white. The most common response from black I've found is of course 1...d5, but I've had opponents try other things (even 1...e5). 1.Nf3 puts the pressure on black to make a commitment, to choose a defense even though you haven't given them a hint of your plans as white. Sure, it dissuades 1...e5, but besides that, it leaves black in the dark and as white, you get an idea of your opponents defenses before they know what you're up to.
Avatar of NimzoDave
pellik wrote:
daturadream23 wrote:

The NL will usually either transpose into a QG type position, a reti, or any of the hyper-modern defense main line stuff. If all of the systems you play involve a pawn on c3 you'll have some trouble.

c3, no, why? Very likely is c4 at some point. 

Avatar of NimzoDave
hicetnunc wrote:
NimzoDave wrote:

The DVD by Nigel Davies? Anyone? Seems very promising, according to this http://www.chesscafe.com/cbcafe/cbcafe.htm 

Nf3+b3 is perfectly respectable and Davies is a good author when it comes to slightly offbeat systems, so you can certainly follow his advice.

I now have it. It is very delightful, great presentation, and rather interesting from a purely positional-chess perspective (rather than from a opening-variation perspective). Really entertaining and well done.

Nigel only presents games from the 1.b3 move-order (with some very few exceptions). He states that Larsen decided that this is more flexible. i am sure he is right, but my plan is still to go 1.Nf3 and look for English options. 

Avatar of NimzoDave

Someone asked how I am doing so far with the NL... let me tell you a secret. I have some painful (embarrissingly short) losses, where I ignorded something typical... but thats the way it is in chess. I have got pretty good positions too, and I am getting the hang of it soon I think

Avatar of Chessdude007

If you wish to avoid mainlines, I do reccomend Nf3+E3-  I seem to have quite a bit of success with it.  e3 prevents black's queen pawn from advancing beyond d5 and will give white a firm grip on the d4 square after d4 is played.  After e3 is played, white has no need to worry about a response of c3 from black.  If you look at my games, you will see that I did lose a couple of games in which I used the opening- but this was not the opening's fault, it was me blundering positional advantages away due to burn out from prolonged exposure to the world of academia.

Avatar of NimzoDave
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Avatar of Chessdude007
Chessdude007 wrote:

If you wish to avoid mainlines, I do reccomend Nf3+E3-  I seem to have quite a bit of success with it.  e3 prevents black's queen pawn from advancing beyond d5 and will give white a firm grip on the d4 square after d4 is played.  After e3 is played, white has no need to worry about a response of c3 from black.  If you look at my games, you will see that I did lose a couple of games in which I used the opening- but this was not the opening's fault, it was me blundering positional advantages away due to burn out from prolonged exposure to the world of academia.

When black responds to Nf3 with a symmetrical defense and white responds with e3, it is called the "Zukertort opening: Quiet system",  

Avatar of ThrillerFan
AcivilizedGentleman wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

I personally have little to no respect of the Nimzo-Larsen Attack or Larsen's Opening.  I beat a 2447 in August 2010 (the only player I've ever beaten over 2300, though I have many draws to 2300+) with Black against Larsen's Opening.  The inclusion of 1.Nf3 doesn't prevent e5.  Black can play an early d6, and go for a reversed closed sicilian setup, as White will likey play c4 at some point.

I say stick with 1.e4 or 1.d4.  If you hate the 30+ move book lines of the Sicilian, do like Spassky did and play the Closed Sicilian as White vs 1...c5.

What is with all of these self proclaimed masters that refuse to play games on chess.com and to take the free membership by revealing their title? I don't get it..

 

First off, I don't claim to be a master.  I claim to have beaten masters.  I personally am an expert (FIDE rating in the 2050s).


Secondly, the better players play on ICC, and internet ratings are garbage anyway compared to over the board ratings.  My FIDE rating is in the 2050s.  My Internet Blitz Rating is in the 1700s.

Avatar of zborg

Here are three openings you might play as Black--

QID, Slav, and Schlecter Grunfeld (SG).

Just turn them around and play them from the white side--

i.e. "Larsen's Attack, London System, and reversed SG (pawns on c3 and d4, fianchetto on the King side, and Nf3).

As a result, your opening work is essentially done.  Q.E.D.

Systems you play from the black side, you turn round and use with white.  

You simply pocket the first move advantage.  And Life is Good (LG).  Smile

Avatar of RyanGarner

As white, I like the Italian, or the London System.

Avatar of Evilution
NimzoDave wrote:

Hi, my first post here (but I have played club chess for a decade so I am not a new beginner).

Those of you who are in this siutation: you have made serious attempts to work out a respetable repertoire as white, but in the end found it to require too much work. Now you look for a simpler off-beat system that allows you to play chess without needing to prepare lines against booked-up opponents.

I played 1.e4 but found it quite difficult to meet the Sicillian. I played 1.d4 and 1.c4 but certain systems seemed to need rather much opening work, to get reasonable positions. And, most black players study systems as black against these first moves. 

So, I have now tried Torre attack (c3+d4+Nf3+Bg5), London (as Torre, but Bf4), Bird (f4, b3 or g3), and now I am trying the Nimzo-Larsen attack.

What do you think: 1.Nf3 + 2.b3, with possibilities to transpose into certain mainlines at desire. E.g., against the Dutch I can go 2.c4 + 3.g3, and there can be an English sometimes. Dear friends, I would really like to hear from you your free thoughts on all this. Do you struggle in a similar fashion, seeking the "heaven" (some system that suddenly will transform your play :)

I think I can comment on your situation since I seem to have travelled pretty much the same road as you have-- gave up on 1. e4 back in '84 when I realized I couldn't beat the old Super Connie with the open games -- that's what got me into the Colle in the first place.  I have played all the openings you have mentioned and had the greatest success with 1. c4; but even now, that seems to be getting harder to win with.

I prefer 1. b3 because of it's more flexible nature, but your choice can't be bad.  Although I did get annoyed with some Black replies to 1. Nf3, such as 1. ...Nc6 and 1. ...d6.

I am always searching for the opening "nirvana" -- the place where I choose my few openings and stay with them, yet I never do.  I've probably switched openings 100 to 200 times in the last twenty years!

I like the hypermodern openings with White alot, yet they seem ponderous at times.  My latest clever plan was to play 1. b3 all the time, but I can't seem to do just that because it is a bit boring-- and seems to require alot of positional knowledge, some memorization, and playing  for an even position.

I would play 1. Nf3 all the time ( I think) if everyone would cooperate and play 1. ...d5 to "help" me!Laughing

 


 

Avatar of NimzoDave
Evilution wrote:

Although I did get annoyed with some Black replies to 1. Nf3, such as 1. ...Nc6 and 1. ...d6.

I am always searching for the opening "nirvana" -- the place where I choose my few openings and stay with them, yet I never do.  I've probably switched openings 100 to 200 times in the last twenty years!

I like the hypermodern openings with White alot, 


 

Hi, thanks for this. So, I am not alone.

I wonder if it really is such a bad idea to switch openings often. Sure, there must be some cost for it, but I believe there is also some benefit in terms of getting hands-on experience with very different kinds of positions. Hence, getting deeper positional understanding. Perhaps.

I would go into 2.d4 after 1...Nc6, and maybe (probably) even play 3.Bf4. Against 1...d6, I would consider going 2.e4 (!) to get a classical Pirc (or Modern). I kind of like those defences as Black, but I think I could imagine to play against them too. A restrained approach is hard to meet as Black.

Thanks for the other suggestions too; e.g, London is underrated I think. I very much like it against 1...d5. It is not clear to me how to best play against the indian defences, however. Maybe going into a Torre. 

Avatar of VLaurenT

I wonder if it really is such a bad idea to switch openings often. Sure, there must be some cost for it, but I believe there is also some benefit in terms of getting hands-on experience with very different kinds of positions. Hence, getting deeper positional understanding. Perhaps.

Yes, you're right. It's certainly a way to develop your overall chess knowledge, and it's perfectly okay.

But then, you can't say you're not happy with your openings : by switching, you accept, that, from time to time, you'll get bad positions out of your opening and you need to find fresh resources OTB. Usually, people switching openings do this because they don't get what they expect from their opening schemes, rather than as a way of experimenting and developing their play.

My piece of advice was assuming you belong to the first category of players Smile
Avatar of futebolcampeao

Everyone is overthinking this.  Just pick an opening and play it a lot, so then we can have extra time for other areas of chess study.

Avatar of finalunpurez

Chess isnt all about opening. There is still the middlegame and endgame.

Avatar of NimzoDave

I agree. This is why I want to avoid getting commited to theory-heavy main lines. I prefer to read a middlegame book, or study endgames.

When I say I look for a reasonable opening, I mean more than just something for internet blitz. I talk about finding something that is good enough for several years, in OTB games. With some practical bite, but slightly off-beat.

I am currently playing NL, and Torre ("perfect opening as white for club players" [Silman]).

Today, it is acually Torre. I kind of like it. It can't be *that* bad, "only for club players" [someone, on internet] since I see games in the database by Yusupov, Kamsky, Spassky, Dreev, Van Wely, Salov, Timman, Piket, Larsen, Miles... (!!).