New line in the Ruy?

At the amateur level, anything's playable. And this is probably more playable than some of the worse stuff amateur's try (Englund Gambit, for instance). As mentioned above, a few top players have used it here and there for surprise value, but it's not good enough to play against that level of opposition regularly. From what I've seen at local tournaments here, it's actually a popular line among low level players (<1200 USCF) against the RL.

--Fromper

Well, as the last game I just posted on this thread points out - I'm enjoying using it! Also, until I encounter clear irrefutable defences to it, I think I'll continue to explore its variant lines of play and, if possible, perhaps work on it a bit, maybe 5-10 moves down the line.

If it is so clearly dominated as suggested by some, then it should basically be a 'dead' line. However, I've seen no clear line of response that guarantees so. All I've heard are statistics, which I've investigated, and like I've said, even those master games showed much less follow up on black's part to use the aggression created by Bird's defence to its maximal advantage.

Not that I'm a master or anything (VERY far from it!) but I honestly think that this last posted game of mine made far more use of the tempo/aggression needed to make Bird's Defence still useful.

Another game I just played that won with the Bird's Defence: This one illustrates what I meant about using the tempo advantage agressively!

Yes that last game was sure a quick knockout, but frankly an embarassement! How could Capablanca blunder like that on the 9th move - obviously he should have castled!

Nice to see that Alekhine won with it, and even better that Capablanca lost to it! But this particular victory owes itself to a strange blunder so...

Ok new evidence here. My latest game which employed this defence ended in a draw. Against the particular response chosen by my oponent this game, I believe I've found a way to secure a modest positional advantage. It seemed that after the queen trade and the forced movement of both kings, that forcing trades and playing for the endgame will give black a slight advantage. In fact, I'm certain that I did so in this game, only I made an error on move 23. ... Rc6?! Should have been Rc3 - much better and would have lead to a win I think. Anyway, interesting game:

37.c4+ Would have won your rook. Probably the game too (can't analyze while at work).

In my opinion, those pawns on d4 and d5 are isolated and can become pretty weak. Endgames are probably all in White's favour, so you shouldn't trade off too many pieces (after the queens are off, you probably wouldn't want to castle anyway, so it doesn't matter that the castling rights are gone).

In this game, White duly won the d4 pawn, giving him an advantage, although it's not easy for him to create a passed pawn. I can't analyze here (at work). I suspect 26.b4 was a mistake by White, allowing you to keep enough pressure, except you took on a2 too quickly but he didn't notice.

Guess a draw is the right result, White wasn't particularly at home in the endgame, I think :-)

The mistake that white made  37. f4?? instead of 37. c4+ ! is noteable. However, 37. c4 would not have been an option had my rook played 23. c3 as I've mentioned several times both in the post and in the annotations.

As for exchanging pieces, this kept the advantage for black (see game annotations) - I had more going for me, particularly with the prospect of equalizing the 1-point gap between us, and probably then some. It was the 23. move error coupled with the neglect of the d pawn which his knight claimed earlier that cost the win this game. The rest of the thinking was sound.

Yes, the simple 4.Nxd4 is obviously the problem with it. As Ray Brooks pointed out, in over 2100 games (by no means an inadequately sized trial), white scores 62%. Anything over 55% I would say is a good opening for white.

He let you off the hook a couple of times; as you pointed out yourself. He could have played 8.Bb5+ or Re1+ on a couple different occasions.

BTW, 18...Qxf2+ forces a quick mate. So, why would you say 18...Qh2+ is just as good?

I didn't think this would have to be said, but...

Obviously this is not a game between two of the greatest chess masters in history. I don't know why he put those names, but he is clearly just kidding around.

In response to the last post: well, yes, I thought it was strange enough, I was just too lazy to look up the game to confirm that this was not them. It certainly doesn't seem so!

And in regards to the comment about 18. Qxf2+ or Qh2+ - they both do the same thing, as I was saying. Yes, the Qh2+ line is 1 or 2 moves faster, but either way, the win was assured. I think you are beside the point of interest in this thread...

The fact that the opening position along with the tactical opportunities it opens up is the object of discussion here...

After 8. Bb5? then 8... Bd7 9. Bxd7 Qxd7
+ Why would White want to trade his good bishop? And for what?

26. b4
+ Is a completely sensible move. Please explain how you might have capitalized on my "failure" to push up my c-pawn.

26. ... Rc6?
+ Did not cost you the win, since I did not use 27. Nd4 which forks the rook and your f-pawn, winning the pawn for free. In fact you had not possessed a 'win' that you could lose. I was up one pawn, and had two pawn islands versus three.

29. Ke2 and your notation: "White has the idea!" ?
+ When before this move should I have activated my king? ...  In the opening?
+ In fact 29. Ke2 was not the right idea. Much better is 29. f4.

36. ... Rxa2?? may as well have negated all your previous annotation, since this immediately loses the game had I played correctly 37. c4!

Also, for one reason or another, you never mentioned that we had this game on blitz for just 6 minutes each side.

23. Rxc3 is an illegal move. Perhaps that's why you didn't play it; your king was in check.

4.Nxd4 is the main line.

5.0-0 should be preferable.

But 5.c3? is weak because of Qg5!

17. Qh1#

I wonder why you didn't play this?

(First post)

I see that you posted several games to illustrate how great this new idea of yours is... But I noticed that it seemed with each new game, your rating was lower than the last game. Do you think this is a direct result of your continued use of this inferior opening?