Offbeat lines against the french?

Sort:
Verbeena

As white, i find it extremely difficult to play against the french defense and lose most of my games. The pressure against white central pawns is immense and it is hard to find good moves while black's position seems to play itself. 

Is there anything white can play that avoids most of the typical play the french defense player expects and is prepared for after e4, e6, d4, d5?

dpnorman

Hm, I’m not fond of too many non 2. d4 systems vs the French. If you’re willing to play into a semi-mainline, though, there’s some fun modern stuff in the Advance that MVL has been playing lately. Here’s a video on the topic:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GJUvsLO0qJU

darkunorthodox88

non 2.d4 systems vs french are often sketchy and give black easy equality or worse without even forcing black to play a different structure to prove so.

Aside from KIA, you can also try 1.e4 e6 2.nc3 d5 3.g3 point being 3....nf6 4.e5 nfd7 6.f4, where white will delay or not play d4, but instead focus on the kingside after castling and going g4 ne2-ng3 etc. White needs to be confortable with closed sicilian like positions after 3...c5 though

There is bound to be some funky playable line in the LaBourdannais french  1.e4 e6 2.f4 but dont know any detailed line. The Reti gambit is also an interesting try as even blacks best reply leave white with an interesting and somewhat rich position

if you absolutely loathe the french structure you can play 2.c4!? but will need to be ready to do some homework as white must be prepared not just for 2..d5 which you would surely know, but tries like 2..c5, 2..b6 or even 2.nc6 as well and like the resulting positions.

ThrillerFan

The only respectable non-2.d4 line is the King's Indian Attack, but most French players know it better than KIA players as White do.

 

1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Ngf3 c5 5.g3 Nc6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.O-O O-O 8.Re1 b5 9.e5 Nd7 10.Nf1 a5 11.h4 b4 12.N1h2 Ba6 and now:

 

A) 13.Bf4 a4!

B) 13.Ng4 Nd4! (13...a4! is also good)

C) 13.Ng5 Qe8!

 

Instead of trying to avoid it, maybe you need to learn how to approach blocked centers and pawn chains.  Go through a bunch of French Advance, French Winawer, and King's Indian Mar Del Plata games.

Hi3333333333

There are b3, Nf3 (two knights or wings gambit)

Verbeena

Here is a recently played game where i decided to invent on the spot and play e5 as my second move. Although i never played or seen a game like this, the play was relatively easy. I found most of the top engine moves and played with 95% accuracy while my opponent cracked because of the pressure. Instead of desperately trying to hold on to an overextended centre (like i do in almost every mainline french) i could focus on improving my position and creating threats.

I'll also check out some variants suggested in this thread.

 

tygxc

@1

"i find it extremely difficult to play against the french defense"
++ Why? His Bc8 is closed in. He is denied the natural move ...Nf6.

"lose most of my games." ++ Analyse your lost games. You surely do not lose because the French Defence is that powerful. You lose because you make mistakes.

"The pressure against white central pawns is immense and it is hard to find good moves while black's position seems to play itself."
++ No way. Black's position is very difficult to play. His Bc8 is shut in, his natural ...Nf6 is chased by e5. It is hard to find good moves for black. White's position almost plays itself.
Problem however is, that black is more familiar with those difficut positions than white,
as black encounters them more often and thus has gathered more experience.

"Is there anything white can play that avoids most of the typical play the french defense player expects and is prepared for after e4, e6, d4, d5?"
++ 2 d3, 2 c4, 2 Qe2 are all viable
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044267 

tygxc

@6
2 e5 is an odd move from Steinitz.
Of course not 3 exd6 e.p.?
Pawn e5 is a thorn in black's position.
That is why black should not play 2 e5 d5? but rather 2 e5 d6 so as to get rid of pawn e5.

Verbeena
tygxc wrote:

@6
2 e5 is an odd move from Steinitz.
Of course not 3 exd6 e.p.?
Pawn e5 is a thorn in black's position.

The best move according to openings database is d4 instead of exd6, but that would transpose to the advance variation. My whole point is to avoid main french def structures with a fragile pawn centre, therefore i gladly captured en passant.

FrogCDE

There are some good YouTube videos on 3.Bd3. I thought this was a pointless line when I was a French player myself, but it turns out to have some venom, and is easy to learn.

Thee_Ghostess_Lola

heres a offbeat line...

"excuze-m-wah...Where is the Louvre ?"

sndeww

The Steinitz gives black easy equality, but if you enjoy the resulting positions, you may want to keep playing it. 

pfren

Basically after (1.e4 e6) 2.e5? Black enjoys a more comfortable game, already. It is a beginner's move- moving the same pawn again without a good reason, and putting it at a vulnerable square.

Black's best move is not 2...d6 (which of course cannot be bad, at all) but 2...c5! Intending ...Nc6, ...Qc7 and/ or ...Nge7-g6 etc.

The move ...d6 will be played AFTER white plays c2-c3 with the intention of d2-d4, so that a knight cannot appear to the c3 square. It is like an Alapin Sicilian where Black did not have to move his knight twice to get that structure.

Vipersix5
Consider the Tarrasch variation 3. Nd2
PawnTsunami
kaukasar wrote:

As white, i find it extremely difficult to play against the french defense and lose most of my games. The pressure against white central pawns is immense and it is hard to find good moves while black's position seems to play itself. 

Is there anything white can play that avoids most of the typical play the french defense player expects and is prepared for after e4, e6, d4, d5?

First of all, you are correct in that you have a terrible score against the French.  It seems you have tried virtually every way (Tarrasch, Nc3, Advance) and have similar results with all of them.  However, when I looked at your games, the problem is not the opening at all.  Take this game as an example:

Your issue is that you do not understand when you should be breaking open the enemy king.  Specifically, in the game above, Black weakened his king's protection and lacked defenders in the area when you had several pieces that could quickly get to his king.  The reason you are having trouble with the French is the same reason you are having trouble with other openings:  you need to work on your tactical vision.

mpaetz
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

heres a offbeat line...

"excuze-m-wah...Where is the Louvre ?"

     Once, when crossing the Place de la Bastille wearing a "Baseball--America's Game" t-shirt I was approached by a fellow American who asked me to point out the Bastille.

PineappleBird

What's tricky about the french is it's quite easy for them to "move order you" in to something less comfortable.

The coolest off-beat answer I know of is the Milner-Barry Gambit. Great Gambit. You give up a pawn for activity, so this central pawn you mention - just say oh no my pawn, give it to them and show them what pieces can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX5ZbuBrJdo

 

Personally, I play Tarrasch... Playing the main line of this Gambit is not necessary you can get +1 in so many lines easily... But I feel the Milner Barry is instructive for many french-structure situations when you happen to lose the center pawn and want to go all out with activity to try and claim compensation... And once you get the idea- there are lines in the Tarrasch with similar pawn sac ideas with insane stats. (59% win rate for white Online, 50% Master games with only 16% win rate for Black).

 

 

That being said ; getting +1 or +3 against an opening dosen't mean alot... These guys are usually great defenders and love to come back from behind... So even if you get to play some brilliant sacrifice and attacking move and get to +7 - never count those french players out. They tend to bite back so keep your focus.

 

Good luck

ShouldBreezi

Not a bad move actually, not sure if it has a name either... though any french player messing around with engine may have seen it

ShouldBreezi

If you want an actual opening go for tarrasch 

ThrillerFan
tygxc wrote:

@6
2 e5 is an odd move from Steinitz.
Of course not 3 exd6 e.p.?
Pawn e5 is a thorn in black's position.
That is why black should not play 2 e5 d5? but rather 2 e5 d6 so as to get rid of pawn e5.

 

2...c5 also proves that e5 was played too quickly.  Becomes hard for White to guard the pawn without over-exposing his king.