Spanish Game!
From which Elo can you - sensefully - play the Spanish?
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I thought about that, do you think the big number of different lines is manageable? I was kinda scared of having to learn so many different things
But thanks a lot
H123sge wrote:
I thought about that, do you think the big number of different lines is manageable? I was kinda scared of having to learn so many different things
But thanks a lot
I think Chess Players in the last decade have been extremely harsh on how they represent Chess Theory & Chess Variations to society.
They make Chess Variations & Chess Theory sound like bad horrible things.
The result is a lot of people end up being scared. The feelings you feel OP are understandable.
In my opinion, the feelings of being scared is due to these types of Extreme chess players over exaggerating things as scare tactics to try and cripple other chess players from having fun.
Do you know the Spanish Game is often called the Ruy Lopez? Ruy Lopez was a real life person. Ruy Lopez was a Spanish Priest in the 1500’s.
We are in the year 2024 and we are playing a line used by a Priest in Europe during the 1500’s.
I don’t find that scary!
I find that absolutely fascinating!
Do you see that little pawn move 3...a6?
It is a variation made by an American in the 1800’s named Paul Morphy. He played the line which he loved to play and it was different from what others played.
Don’t you see? Their is an idea associated by these moves with an amazing back story. It makes things interesting.
H123sge wrote:
I thought about that, do you think the big number of different lines is manageable? I was kinda scared of having to learn so many different things
But thanks a lot
Simplify your approach and choose variations that limit blacks options or gets consistent positions for yourself. You can always start with the Exchange variation and slowly build up your repertoire with the Ruy Lopez. Start playing through some games first to see if the positions that pop up feel like they easily can be understood.
-> King's Gambit (wild, agressive, but can backfire real hard)
-> Evans Gambit (a little less wild, also agressive, can backfire, but you will not come down in flames as hard)
-> Italian Game (moderately agressive, safer than the other two)
The Ruy Lopez is suitable for all levels really. More theory doesn't mean that you can't play it at lower levels. It's all about swinging pieces around based on fairly logical concepts of pins, diagonals, good positions, and that sort of thing. The Queen's Gambit is far more difficult to play correctly because it all gets incredibly complicated with potential pawn breaks and the most incredibly subtle of moves, and one wrong move can ruin the whole game.
Love the Spanish opening
The problem is that people start to use strageties like to get u out of theory which can cause u to think it is bad. At this level u gotta learn to play from any position.
@1
"From which Elo can you - sensefully - play the Spanish?" ++ Any rating.
" I play the ponziani " ++ That is OK too.
"I feel like it is less effective and rather bad" ++ It is neither bad nor ineffective, you probably play it badly. Do not blame your losses on the opening, but on your own mistakes.
tygxc wrote:
@1
"From which Elo can you - sensefully - play the Spanish?" ++ Any rating.
" I play the ponziani " ++ That is OK too.
"I feel like it is less effective and rather bad" ++ It is neither bad nor ineffective, you probably play it badly. Do not blame your losses on the opening, but on your own mistakes.
The Ponziani is actively bad. If it were the Bishop's Opening or the Vienna, I would agree, but the Ponziani is a mistake on move 3. Not quite enough to lose off of with perfect play, but it's a very difficult slightly losing position.
Tbh i don't there's a specific "level" in which you are allowed to play the Ruy lopez/Spanish.
Actually, i would be more concerned abt understanding the general plans in the positions since they can get kinda tricky; And also watch out for some lines; For example the Schilemann/Jaenisch defense (3...f5) and the open Spanish (3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe5); They tend to have a bit more of a forced nature-like unlike the other ones. (especially the Schilemann)
You can play the Ruy Lopez at any level. It's principled and offers a wide range of positions and Pawn structures. For this reason I'd say playing the Ruy Lopez early and being forced to understand the arising positions is actually helpful for your overall understanding of chess. You will soon figure out that most people at a lower elo level (where I'm at as well) don't really know all the daring Ruy Lopez theory that everybody seems to be so afraid about. So they are just as clueless as you. Analyse your games, look up some basic theory/standard plans and you're good.
I just started using the Rey Lopez opening after watching this video. He made it very easy to understand. Even the moves black makes to deal with the bishop b5 were explained clearly.
https://youtu.be/wta8A52bEGs?si=RxhsCd8EBRnJBGZf
think depending on playing style(defensive like 1600) (aggressive prob 2200+)
If you an alrounder it's perfect for you
Actually, I think the Ruy Lopez does have rating level limit. People are saying anyone can play it, but the thing is not everyone should play it if their rating level is very low.
The Ruy Lopez breaks chess principles, but the lines in Ruy Lopez have been concretely analyzed.
Concrete lines trump General Principles.
Always!
- How many times does the LSB in Ruy Lopez move?
It can move up to 4 times which breaks the principle of not moving same piece twice. Concrete lines have showed it is BEST if white moves the Bishop several times. It is how white maintains an advantage.
- When does the Queen Side pieces get developed?
White’s Queen side suffers from lazy development till around move 10. This breaks the principles of not developing your pieces.
Again, it has been concrete analyzed for white to do the above.
———————
The problem with having a Low level player playing the Ruy Lopez is due to Beginner Bad Habits.
- Most beginners suffer from moving same piece twice to much which results in opponent getting lead in development.
- Most beginners suffer from neglecting development. You can see a lot of beginner games where 1 beginner never moved any left side or right side pieces.
You have to Break the Beginners Bad Above Habits and try to get them into a line which makes them actively think of developing and not moving same piece twice.
——————
Than after you teach them how to develop and not move same piece twice.
You have to Break the above lesson so that they know when to make exceptions. The exceptions will happen based on concrete lines which require stuff to happen.
Basically, you have to teach beginner the rules.
Than you have to teach beginner when to break rules.
——————
The OP has chess rating around 1600.
I think it would be ok for OP to try it. He should be strong enough to understand not to do dumb attacks with just Knight or neglecting an entire side for no reason.
So I play the ponziani since a really long time (at least most of my chess career, apart from the Vienna for some) but recently as I get to 1600-1700 I feel like it is less effective and rather bad. Is there any opening you could ssuggest to me to learn now, featuring an aggresive playstile and effective in my rating range? Thank you so much!
Update: I got suggested the Ruy Lopez, but is the number of variations manageable?