Opening system for black

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Demirdelen17

There are several opening systems for White such as London and Colle system etc.

Is there an opening system for black?

If yes,what will be your suggestion for black opening?

crazedrat1000

For one system that can be used in both e4 and d4 something with 1. g6 is probably your best bet. The black lion defense seems like the most attractive line in this setup I'm aware of, I haven't looked deeply into it but you could take a look. I think you'll have to play other lines in the modern or a KID in conjunction though if white plays something like c4.

Otherwise the way it usually works is players play separate openings against d4 and e4, but the openings might pair together in a way that makes sense... they may have some common pawn structures or similar piece setups. One obvious example would be playing the caro-kann + the slav or semi-slav.

Generally when you choose a your responses to e4 and d4 you should consider how the two lines combine to handle the Reti / English as well. There was a recent thread on this topic - Which 1. e4 and 1. d4 defenses should be paired together - Chess Forums - Chess.com

Toldsted

The Hedgehog

tygxc

@1

"There are several opening systems for White such as London and Colle system etc.
Is there an opening system for black?" ++ Slav Defense and Caro-Kann.

Lemonade

I don’t know if this is a system, but I like Sicilian dragon

darkunorthodox88

it depends on what counts as a system,

for example, is always playing for e6 and d5 (usually with nf6) a system? because you can play this agaisnt virtually anything white can play. But the french and queens gambit declined are so different in flavor that no one sane would call this a system. arguably, the same can be said of 1.c6 2.d5.

you can play a sort of system, by going for pirc and KID and KID like structures but you must beware that the pirc plays different than the KID despite similar structure.

you can play a 1.b6 defense agaisnt almost anything but 1.g3/1.g4 and you will end up playing QID/English defense/ Owen's/ dutchy queenside flank lines but you must likely remember that they play very different from one another

you can also play an old indian/hanham philidor/black lion "system" and it actually comes closest to playing like a true system

there may be others im not remembering, but these are the big options.

Strayaningen

The only real issue with the Black Lion as a system is that you have to pick your move order and if you go with 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 then you get hit with 4. f4 and these lines are just bad for Black imo. Alternatively you can go for 3...e5 but then you have to be willing to play the endgame after 4. dxe5.

spectros1
French defense against E4. I think its a system if you know enough of the different lines.
fifigray

owen's defense can be played against pretty much everything, unless they play g3 on move one

TheSonics

unlike with White, I'd suggest not to play 1 setup religiously... How about learning 3 simple setups? If you have to choose one - Hedgehog.

but...

vs 1.e4 choose any setup (Queens Indian Defense?... QID)

vs. 1.d4 take a glance at:

1. Hedgehog

2. QID

3. Tarrasch

You don't have to learn any lines, just look at any game in these and look at how the pieces develop.

The reason Tarrasch is included is sometimes White plays in 1.d4 forcing stuff where you are kindof obliged to play d5, and then you have to be flexible with the plans... So Tarrasch is not actually a system but what I call the backup plan to just play d5+c5 if you have to and deviate from the QID / Hedgehog altogether.

Hedgehog and QID can kindof be the same thing... Example, if White plays the London - Hedgehog and QID might overlap to some degree...

darkunorthodox88
Strayaningen wrote:

The only real issue with the Black Lion as a system is that you have to pick your move order and if you go with 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 then you get hit with 4. f4 and these lines are just bad for Black imo. Alternatively you can go for 3...e5 but then you have to be willing to play the endgame after 4. dxe5.

1. better than nbd7 is e5 right away, the queen exchange line is known to be harmless

2. if e5 4.f4?! exd4 5.qxd4 nc6 6.qd1 (or bb5 bd7) qe7 equalizes. sometimes, you just have to deviate from system play a little.

TheSonics
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
Strayaningen wrote:

The only real issue with the Black Lion as a system is that you have to pick your move order and if you go with 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 then you get hit with 4. f4 and these lines are just bad for Black imo. Alternatively you can go for 3...e5 but then you have to be willing to play the endgame after 4. dxe5.

1. better than nbd7 is e5 right away, the queen exchange line is known to be harmless

2. if e5 4.f4?! exd4 5.qxd4 nc6 6.qd1 (or bb5 bd7) qe7 equalizes. sometimes, you just have to deviate from system play a little.

You are referring to what chess.com calls "Lion Defense" after Pirc opening?

This is actually solid... I saw Giri do it, and I find it hard to play.

Demirdelen17

Thank you guys for comments. I will take a look at black lion setup. If possible please share some example black lion games

Strayaningen
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
Strayaningen wrote:

The only real issue with the Black Lion as a system is that you have to pick your move order and if you go with 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 then you get hit with 4. f4 and these lines are just bad for Black imo. Alternatively you can go for 3...e5 but then you have to be willing to play the endgame after 4. dxe5.

1. better than nbd7 is e5 right away, the queen exchange line is known to be harmless

2. if e5 4.f4?! exd4 5.qxd4 nc6 6.qd1 (or bb5 bd7) qe7 equalizes. sometimes, you just have to deviate from system play a little.

Yeah the endgame line is fine for Black but could hardly be said to be part of the Black Lion "system". I play the 4. Nf3 Nbd7 5. Rg1 line personally.

mikewier

One of my students liked dynamic piece play. For him, the repertoire I came up with was the KIDlPirc with black and the Kings Indian reversed with white. This player reached the 1800/1900 level.

another student was not as strong and preferred a slower, safer style. For him, the repertoire we came up with was the Caro Kann/Slav with black and the London system with white. This player reached about the 1500/1600 level

an advantage of playing such systems is that there is much transfer of learning from one game to the next—Pawn structures, tactics, endgames, etc.

the disadvantage of course is that one limits one style and so will eventually have to expand/change the repertoire as one gets stronger.

if one only plays bullet and blitz chess, the hedgehog is a nice choice for black. White has an edge but often must take time to figure out how to win. I would not recommend the hedgehog as your main opening in classical chess.

tygxc

@16

"I would not recommend the hedgehog as your main opening in classical chess."
++ Why not?
GM Ulf Andersson played it as his main opening in classical chess and for both colors.

Austinxu15

For Black, I like to play the Caro Kann Defence to help improve my defensive structure.

nose3queponer

French defense