Orthodox d4

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Avatar of bronsteinitz

Anybody some good recommendations for orthodox. I play mainly the exchange variation with white, but would love to find better....

Avatar of bronsteinitz

Anybody?

Avatar of rooperi

...Sighs... I dont even understand the question, sorry.

QGA, and budapest, that's me...

Avatar of bronsteinitz

You're ok then. But d4,d5,c4,e6, Nc3, Nf6,...and what then to get somewhere with white?

Avatar of rooperi

    Move   ECO       Frequency    Score  AvElo Perf AvYear %Draws
 1: Bg5    D50     13223: 45.3%   60.7%  2282  2324  1983   33%
 2: cxd5   D35b     8722: 29.8%   65.1%  2337  2388  1998   33%
 3: Nf3    D37a     6372: 21.8%   60.7%  2320  2349  1988   33%
 4: e3     D35a      463:  1.5%   45.2%  2052  2075  1990   24%
 5: Bf4    D35a      234:  0.8%   57.0%  2237  2261  1979   29%
 6: g3     D35a       68:  0.2%   58.0%  2163  2224  1989   28%
 7: a3                35:  0.1%   44.2%        1933  1994   14%
 8: c5                19:  0.0%   28.9%              1998    5%
 9: Qc2               15:  0.0%   63.3%              1998   20%
10: f3                 6:  0.0%   58.3%              1963   17%
11: [end]  D35a        5:  0.0%   50.0%              2004  100%
12: b3                 3:  0.0%    0.0%              1996    0%
13: Bd2                2:  0.0%   25.0%              1999   50%
14: e4                 2:  0.0%   50.0%              1981    0%
15: h3                 2:  0.0%  100.0%              2001    0%
16: Qb3                2:  0.0%   50.0%              2005    0%
17: Qa4+               1:  0.0%    0.0%              1991    0%
_______________________________________________________________
TOTAL:             29174:100.0%   61.7%  2310  2348  1989   33%

Laughing

Avatar of rooperi

cxd5 looks promising...

Avatar of bronsteinitz

I play cxd5..... Exchange variation, but would love to hear better from experts...

Avatar of AngryMacrophage

The most dangerous play from black in the orthodox variation of the QGD tends to go as follows:



I created a thread earlier asking for advice on what to do in a roughly similar position to where this ends but it didn't prove particularly useful.

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/the-queens-gambit-orthodox-variation-continuations

Bg5 is generally better than Bf4 for two reasons. Firstly, it offers a threat to win a pawn or give black doubled pawns:

Avatar of AngryMacrophage

[Out of space so I have to double post and just press solution to see the line. I didn't mean to make it a puzzle.]

Secondly, in the example that I gave first with Bf4 the bishop will end up attacking the empty diagnonal which doesn't have any particular significance in this opening.

Avatar of Expertise87

I'm technically an expert, but maybe not of the caliber you are looking for. I think the Exchange Variation is great and you should keep playing it. White's positional and tactical ideas are very difficult for Black to meet, and for this reason most top GMs will not play 3...Nf6. What are you having trouble with?

Here are some sample variations.

Avatar of rtc3

could someone maybe explain the rationale behind the Bf4 line in the Orthodox QGD? is it just to avoid exchanging the bishop? if so, why is it better to avoid exchanges but not place your pieces as well and allow black to get in his freeing breaks easily than to exchange off your bad bishop for his good one?

Avatar of AngryMacrophage

On general principles some players don't like exchanging bishops for knights but it's my opinion that both can be strong pieces in this opening. Bf4 also prevents Rb8 but that doesn't seem like anywhere near enough of a reason to actually play it. White's dark squared bishop isn't "bad" in the traditional sense and can actually be useful in applying pressure. Sometimes black will move the knight leading to discovered attacks against it if it is on g5. Again this doesn't seem like a strong enough reason to avoid Bg5.

Avatar of NimzoRoy

The exchange variation gives Black long-lasting problems, I would stick with it whenever possible and besides it's Black who often calls the shots in QGD if you don't play the Exchange Var you have to be prepared for Tartakower Variation, Cambridge Springs Defense, Laskers Variation etc

Avatar of NimzoRoy

In the QGD Orthodox Defense I believe 5.Bf4 was the "old-fashioned" move that has been pretty much replaced with 5.Bg5 thanks to the great US GM Harry Nelson Pillsbury around the turn of the 20th-Century, although 5.Bf4 has made a few comebacks since Pillsbury's time, but has never regained it's former popularity.

BTW the "Orthodox Defense" was coined by GM Tarrasch as a jibe against the many players who utilized it so "orthodoxly" (ie religously) in the QGD - instead of playing his favorite 3...c5 which now bears his name the Tarrasch Defense.

Avatar of NimzoRoy

Estragon's point is well taken!