Over analyzing..?

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Avatar of naturalproduct

Until recently I have just been playing games (mostly unrated) to build my confidence and understanding of the game. I am trying to learn a couple openings at this point. I watched videos on the French defense and I think I understood it on a mostly superficial level. Or, I thought originally I got it until I played it...then...well, I say superficial because I get thrown way off when my opponent does something unexpected and I feel like I have to improvise from that point on. This immediately makes me feel like I am on the defence the whole game.

In addition, I notice I am allowing myself to be smothered in games sometimes. I develop my pieces such that everything is secure, then worry about keeping them secure until the point my opponent has found a way to breath down my neck. I've had a few instances where I am staring at the screen so long thinking about my (or my opponents) next move that I totally miss that I am about to lose a Knight or Bishop, with no counter move.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I realize its an issue I need to resolve. I "used to" go for the throat, being very aggressive, but as I learn the game more, I find myself over analyzing positions and tactics to the point where I convince myself every move is bad, thus leaving me with no strategy.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I am wondering from, with what I said, if there are any suggestions. My thought was to learn every variation of a paticular opening until I "masterUndecided" it. Or, back to the basics....I know my mentor here has suggested playing less and starting to study more.

Avatar of plutonia

It's not really a good idea to start by playing openings that are "counterintuitive" like the French defence. It requires a certain amount of skills to play effectively. Also, it might simply be that you don't like to play that type of positions.

Learning chess: 1...e5

Avatar of naturalproduct

Well, I wanted to focus on Black for a while. I am more weak with black, and I do like the French...Im just not very good with it yet...

Avatar of mxiangqi

If you are missing elementary tactics and dropping pieces, you should spend a lot more time studying tactics than learning variations of the French defense. A good mix of tactics study (and other study such as endgames and middlegame play), with occasional practice games, would be the best approach. Once your overall game improves, then you can explore openings a little more.

Avatar of naturalproduct
mxiangqi wrote:

If you are missing elementary tactics and dropping pieces, you should spend a lot more time studying tactics than learning variations of the French defense. A good mix of tactics study (and other study such as endgames and middlegame play), with occasional practice games, would be the best approach. Once your overall game improves, then you can explore openings a little more.

I think its strategy (underlying issue at least). Im not saying tactics are A O.K for me either. My tactic issues seem to arise from a lack of confidence in strategy...Anyway, this is all advice well taken. Im just trying to identify all the problems.

Avatar of mxiangqi
naturalproduct wrote:
mxiangqi wrote:

If you are missing elementary tactics and dropping pieces, you should spend a lot more time studying tactics than learning variations of the French defense. A good mix of tactics study (and other study such as endgames and middlegame play), with occasional practice games, would be the best approach. Once your overall game improves, then you can explore openings a little more.

I think its strategy (underlying issue at least). Im not saying tactics are A O.K for me either. My tactic issues seem to arise from a lack of confidence in strategy...Anyway, this is all advice well taken. Im just trying to identify all the problems.

In your initial post, you mentioned you miss that you are about to lose pieces. Certainly this points to tactical weaknesses. 

Regarding strategy, this points to my advice to study middlegame play. Take some good annotated master games ( e.g. Alekhine's My Best Games of Chess, Botvinnik's One Hundred Selected Games, etc.) and study them in detail. Read "My System" by Nimzovich (multiple times).

Regarding game play, devise a checklist that you run through on every move, a systematic way to find the nuances of the position, opponent's threats and your candidate moves. Do this before getting engrossed in any one line. (It would for instance make you aware that your piece is hanging, before going off into a thicket of variations). Play LONG games where it is possible for you to do this and also seriously analyze on critical moves. Eventually the checklist will be more or less second nature.

Do NOT study openings beyond the bare minimum to get to a playable position for your level. (Later, when you've gotten better at the overall game of chess, then you can study the subtleties of long variations of an opening).

BTW, Tactic issues do NOT arise from a lack of confidence in strategy, whatever that means. They arise mainly due to underdeveloped intuition, set of patterns, and board vision and not consistently or thoroughly checking your opponents' threats and also possible responses to your moves.

Avatar of naturalproduct
mxiangqi wrote:
naturalproduct wrote:
mxiangqi wrote:

If you are missing elementary tactics and dropping pieces, you should spend a lot more time studying tactics than learning variations of the French defense. A good mix of tactics study (and other study such as endgames and middlegame play), with occasional practice games, would be the best approach. Once your overall game improves, then you can explore openings a little more.

I think its strategy (underlying issue at least). Im not saying tactics are A O.K for me either. My tactic issues seem to arise from a lack of confidence in strategy...Anyway, this is all advice well taken. Im just trying to identify all the problems.

In your initial post, you mentioned you miss that you are about to lose pieces. Certainly this points to tactical weaknesses. 

Regarding strategy, this points to my advice to study middlegame play. Take some good annotated master games ( e.g. Alekhine's My Best Games of Chess, Botvinnik's One Hundred Selected Games, etc.) and study them in detail. Read "My System" by Nimzovich (multiple times).

Regarding game play, devise a checklist that you run through on every move, a systematic way to find the nuances of the position, opponent's threats and your candidate moves. Do this before getting engrossed in any one line. (It would for instance make you aware that your piece is hanging, before going off into a thicket of variations). Play LONG games where it is possible for you to do this and also seriously analyze on critical moves. Eventually the checklist will be more or less second nature.

Do NOT study openings beyond the bare minimum to get to a playable position for your level. (Later, when you've gotten better at the overall game of chess, then you can study the subtleties of long variations of an opening).

BTW, Tactic issues do NOT arise from a lack of confidence in strategy, whatever that means. They arise mainly due to underdeveloped intuition, set of patterns, and board vision and not consistently or thoroughly checking your opponents' threats and also possible responses to your moves.

 

Thanks. I get what you mean now. What I ment by the strategy issue was the development of pieces aimed at producing some desired end goal. A long term plan. However, this requires strong tactics. So, what I said before was confusing because I was thinking about it in the wrong order. I was looking at strategy before tactics. I will look at those books you mentioned.  Thanks.

Avatar of baddogno

Just out of curiosity Mike, may I ask why you aren't using the tactics trainer on site?   I'm not at all sure I agree with the folks who preach "tactics, tactics, tactics"  exclusively at beginners, but it is generally thought to be the quickest way to improve your board vision.  You're probably working your way through a tactics book or something and leaving the  TT for later, but it is a wonderful way to test yourself.  Frustrating but still wonderful...

Avatar of mxiangqi
naturalproduct wrote:
mxiangqi wrote:
naturalproduct wrote:
mxiangqi wrote:

If you are missing elementary tactics and dropping pieces, you should spend a lot more time studying tactics than learning variations of the French defense. A good mix of tactics study (and other study such as endgames and middlegame play), with occasional practice games, would be the best approach. Once your overall game improves, then you can explore openings a little more.

I think its strategy (underlying issue at least). Im not saying tactics are A O.K for me either. My tactic issues seem to arise from a lack of confidence in strategy...Anyway, this is all advice well taken. Im just trying to identify all the problems.

In your initial post, you mentioned you miss that you are about to lose pieces. Certainly this points to tactical weaknesses. 

Regarding strategy, this points to my advice to study middlegame play. Take some good annotated master games ( e.g. Alekhine's My Best Games of Chess, Botvinnik's One Hundred Selected Games, etc.) and study them in detail. Read "My System" by Nimzovich (multiple times).

Regarding game play, devise a checklist that you run through on every move, a systematic way to find the nuances of the position, opponent's threats and your candidate moves. Do this before getting engrossed in any one line. (It would for instance make you aware that your piece is hanging, before going off into a thicket of variations). Play LONG games where it is possible for you to do this and also seriously analyze on critical moves. Eventually the checklist will be more or less second nature.

Do NOT study openings beyond the bare minimum to get to a playable position for your level. (Later, when you've gotten better at the overall game of chess, then you can study the subtleties of long variations of an opening).

BTW, Tactic issues do NOT arise from a lack of confidence in strategy, whatever that means. They arise mainly due to underdeveloped intuition, set of patterns, and board vision and not consistently or thoroughly checking your opponents' threats and also possible responses to your moves.

 

Thanks. I get what you mean now. What I ment by the strategy issue was the development of pieces aimed at producing some desired end goal. A long term plan. However, this requires strong tactics. So, what I said before was confusing because I was thinking about it in the wrong order. I was looking at strategy before tactics. I will look at those books you mentioned.  Thanks.

As I said, studying well-annotated master games will help you learn how to plan in the middle game. There are also some books like My System, which discuss positional elements and planning. (Another is How To Reassess Your Chess, but not everyone agrees on how good that book is. I think some things in there are useful, but not all).Some books also discuss basic plans for certain pawn structures, etc.

However, planning is meaningless if you drop pieces. Consistency and tactical awareness are the first basic building blocks.

Avatar of naturalproduct
baddogno wrote:

Just out of curiosity Mike, may I ask why you aren't using the tactics trainer on site?   I'm not at all sure I agree with the folks who preach "tactics, tactics, tactics"  exclusively at beginners, but it is generally thought to be the quickest way to improve your board vision.  You're probably working your way through a tactics book or something and leaving the  TT for later, but it is a wonderful way to test yourself.  Frustrating but still wonderful...

I talked to my coach about this too. I am....trying...at least. I turned the rating off because I was unable to keep up with the clock and it was making me feel demoralized.  I am going through some books as well. One by Nunn and an endgame book by Silman (I think). At this point, I think moves out for a LONG time before I commit in most cases.  The reason why I do decently in the mentor is because I can sit there and think with no pressure before I commit to a move. I am learning a lot in this manner. I want to have fun without pressuring myself too much. Tactics trainer at this point just gets me mad. I know the replies I may get to this, like you need to be tracking your abilities, etc. At this point I want to learn more and not turn myself off to the game (even though I think that's just about impossible for me).

Avatar of naturalproduct

PS. When I first joined and had never played, I went immediately to the tactics trainer. I had no idea what I was doing and went down to 444 within 4 problems. Embarassed lol. I stopped the tracking at that point until I at least learned the basics of the game....

Avatar of baddogno

That's certainly a fair enough answer.  I had a similar experience when I first joined and was so frustrated with the TT that I just worked on tactics courses over on Chess Mentor for a few months.  When I could 100% the basic courses (pins, forks,etc.) I came back to the TT and was immediately in the 1300's.  Given how short a period you've been playing I'd say you're making excellent progress.

Avatar of naturalproduct
baddogno wrote:

That's certainly a fair enough answer.  I had a similar experience when I first joined and was so frustrated with the TT that I just worked on tactics courses over on Chess Mentor for a few months.  When I could 100% the basic courses (pins, forks,etc.) I came back to the TT and was immediately in the 1300's.  Given how short a period you've been playing I'd say you're making excellent progress.

Thanks BD. I love puzzles the most. Chess Mentor is like an endless puzzle book. I love it.

Avatar of eddysallin
naturalproduct wrote:

Until recently I have just been playing games (mostly unrated) to build my confidence and understanding of the game. I am trying to learn a couple openings at this point. I watched videos on the French defense and I think I understood it on a mostly superficial level. Or, I thought originally I got it until I played it...then...well, I say superficial because I get thrown way off when my opponent does something unexpected and I feel like I have to improvise from that point on. This immediately makes me feel like I am on the defence the whole game.

In addition, I notice I am allowing myself to be smothered in games sometimes. I develop my pieces such that everything is secure, then worry about keeping them secure until the point my opponent has found a way to breath down my neck. I've had a few instances where I am staring at the screen so long thinking about my (or my opponents) next move that I totally miss that I am about to lose a Knight or Bishop, with no counter move.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I realize its an issue I need to resolve. I "used to" go for the throat, being very aggressive, but as I learn the game more, I find myself over analyzing positions and tactics to the point where I convince myself every move is bad, thus leaving me with no strategy.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I am wondering from, with what I said, if there are any suggestions. My thought was to learn every variation of a paticular opening until I "master" it. Or, back to the basics....I know my mentor here has suggested playing less and starting to study more.

Odd but true.Low rate players play wide open.Trying check after check,or some wild combo.They lack knowledge but more important for you.....no fear of loosing.As we progress everything becomes a big deal.Play because u enjoy it and don't worry about the rest, most of it is b.s. -----good luck .

Avatar of transpo

naturalproduct wrote:

Until recently I have just been playing games (mostly unrated) to build my confidence and understanding of the game. I am trying to learn a couple openings at this point. I watched videos on the French defense and I think I understood it on a mostly superficial level. Or, I thought originally I got it until I played it...then...well, I say superficial because I get thrown way off when my opponent does something unexpected and I feel like I have to improvise from that point on. This immediately makes me feel like I am on the defence the whole game.

In addition, I notice I am allowing myself to be smothered in games sometimes. I develop my pieces such that everything is secure, then worry about keeping them secure until the point my opponent has found a way to breath down my neck. I've had a few instances where I am staring at the screen so long thinking about my (or my opponents) next move that I totally miss that I am about to lose a Knight or Bishop, with no counter move.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I realize its an issue I need to resolve. I "used to" go for the throat, being very aggressive, but as I learn the game more, I find myself over analyzing positions and tactics to the point where I convince myself every move is bad, thus leaving me with no strategy.

I don't know if this makes sense, but I am wondering from, with what I said, if there are any suggestions. My thought was to learn every variation of a paticular opening until I "master" it. Or, back to the basics....I know my mentor here has suggested playing less and starting to study more.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

The key word is Perspective. There comes a time in over the board analysis, when it is time to step away from the board.

Otherwise you start seeing ghosts. When you start seeing ghosts it is time to step way from the table or the screen and distract yourself.

Another point, there are 2 ways to defend. DIRECTLY and INDIRECTlY. Example: When your opponent is threatening to take your Q. Direct defense involves a move with your Q away from the threat. Indirect defense involves a move , if it is available, that threatens mate. With indirect defense you keep the initiative (the attack).

Avatar of cartmankyle

This is the advice i received when I queried a GM with this exact problem of yours. He said," Study Study Study!! Letting your opponent know the depth of your chess knowledge will intimidate him into making poor moves. Show your opponent how vast your understanding of chess really is. For example, say to your opponent, "Did you know that white goes first and...and black goes second?" Snicker loudly and say "I learned that last week! I bet you didn't even know that!" This will plant the fear in your opponent's heart which you will have to amplify with equally devastating knowledge and moves." I follow this advice religiously and it has served me well thus far..

Avatar of azziralc

Is 1...e6 an interesting move? In order for you to be a good on openings, you must know the opening principles and fundamentals rather than memorizing all the main lines, and hoping for some traps. In my style of play I focus more on principles such as development, grabbing the center, and some positional ideas on each opening theories. 

Avatar of azziralc

Also focus on the negative and positive side of each opening, i.e the french defense has a solid position but accept a weak bishop on c8. But it can be a strong pieces on h5 via d7-e8-h5 and so on.

White also has advantage on space etc.

Avatar of lolmax090

Ive been struggling with this too