Petroff Defence Bishop Gambit!!! New line

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ChristopherCXF

Hello guys!

I was playing a tournament in my house with my friends. We've discovered a gambit on Petroff Defence!

That's the sequence:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4 0–0 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0–0–0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, in this position I just played Qd7. But later, we've discovered the move Bxa2! This smash the white castle! Now b3, a5!, Kb2, a4, Ra1! (Kxa2?, axb3+, Kxb3, c5! Black is better, now just Qb6 and let's go to the mate), Bxb3, cxb3, Nd7! with good attack.

JG27Pyth
Deep_Emotions wrote:

zzz no, just no...


It's better than that isn't it? ...  I think the OP's analysis refuting Kxa2 is good... Otb in blitz you could trap some strong players with that line I think.  But I don't think black has compensation for the piece -- White's king is only moderately explosed, and the real problem is that Black's pieces aren't quite ready enough for the attack. I think Black is a few tempi short of having a winning attack.  But I'm a conservative player and no tactical mastermind... maybe a real attacker sees something there.

I don't understand black's last move Nd7... continuing the line, my first thought defensively for White would be b4, the fewer lines opened the better. I don't see how Black makes headway from there.

JG27Pyth
Deep_Emotions wrote:

strong players wouldn't play Nc3 or castle queenside


Oh, I didn't look at how we got there.

marvellosity

Actually the Nc3 line is a topical one in the GM fraternity.

JG27Pyth
Deep_Emotions wrote:

rofl


And the laugh may be on you... here's a game from the game explorer that follows that line both Nc3 and 000.  2584 qualifies as a strong player IMO.

http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=4135962

marvellosity

Trust you or trust the regular string of GMs who have been trotting this out in the last year or two? I know which one I choose.

thebird
The great thing is that you can do more than argue - play it out! I'm curious about the results... I only play 4. ... Nxf7 in the Petrov, but I'm obviously a patzer!
JG27Pyth
Deep_Emotions wrote:

the laugh isn't on me :) Nc3 isn't the best move zzz, i'm an opening specialist, trust me


And the credentials we're to base this trust on?  You seem so bored by your own comments that you fall asleep midsentence (Or does zzz mean something else?). Is that meant to be convincing?

Here's a spectacular White win on the Petroff 5.Nc3  9.000 line... -- this is quite a nice game from White -- go ahead, you tell Golubev he played weak here! It involves multiple sacs to open up the Black king... it's actually a rather similar idea to the OPs, but from White. -- I can just hear IM Pruess commenting on this game: "Oh, Golubev is angry, these are angry moves..." 

marvellosity

Also checked my DB, 5.Nc3 is the third most popular move and the best scoring - 63% for White!

PrawnEatsPrawn
marvellosity wrote:

Also checked my DB, 5.Nc3 is the third most popular move and the best scoring - 63% for White!


Would you just clarify that for me?

"scoring "minus" 63% for White!" or "scoring "hyphen" 63% for White!"

Thank you.

Scarblac

In New In Chess Yearbook 88, IM Merijn van Delft looked at 9...Bxa2!? in almost exactly the same position (in the line he looked at, Black had played ...Nc6 instead of ...0-0).

See this review, which was what I remembered when I saw your move: http://www.chessvibes.com/reviews/review-new-in-chess-yearbook-88/

marvellosity
PrawnEatsPrawn wrote:
marvellosity wrote:

Also checked my DB, 5.Nc3 is the third most popular move and the best scoring - 63% for White!


Would you just clarify that for me?

"scoring "minus" 63% for White!" or "scoring "hyphen" 63% for White!"

Thank you.


No, I'll leave it up to your considerable intelligence to work out whether minus 63% would be the best scoring move for White in the Petroff.

PrawnEatsPrawn
marvellosity wrote:
PrawnEatsPrawn wrote:
marvellosity wrote:

Also checked my DB, 5.Nc3 is the third most popular move and the best scoring - 63% for White!


Would you just clarify that for me?

"scoring "minus" 63% for White!" or "scoring "hyphen" 63% for White!"

Thank you.


No, I'll leave it up to your considerable intelligence to work out whether minus 63% would be the best scoring move for White in the Petroff.


 

I know nothing of Petroff's Defence, and don't have any idea if this particular line is a doomed one. In that context other moves might be worse, anyway thanks for the information.

marvellosity
Deep_Emotions wrote:

lol okay kiddies :/ zzz, my games obviously show that i'm really good, but okayz


Just because you're a good player doesn't mean you're always right about everything. Grow up.

marvellosity

And I invite you to play that position against Kasparov. What is possibly your point?

marvellosity

Given I'm currently rated higher than you, you can keep your trap shut.

Your opinion clearly doesn't have more merit than the fact that a) GMs regularly employ this move, and b) White scores very heavily with the move. I'll take weighty stats and GM praxis above your opinion any day.

Scarblac
Deep_Emotions wrote:

lol okay :) i don't even play the Petrov as black, but in my opinion, the main lines are more solid than Nc3...


Yes, of course, that's what White is searching for -- something more solid to use against the Petroff. Sheesh.

Scarblac
Deep_Emotions wrote:

0_o i would hope so, since with best play it's usually a drawing weapon for black...so the black side of the Petrov usually prepares a lot more than the white side, so making sure your opening is solid is necessary before starting attacks to try to get the full point


Hogwash.

Scarblac
Deep_Emotions wrote:
Scarblac wrote:
Deep_Emotions wrote:

0_o i would hope so, since with best play it's usually a drawing weapon for black...so the black side of the Petrov usually prepares a lot more than the white side, so making sure your opening is solid is necessary before starting attacks to try to get the full point


Hogwash.


oh? how so? after e4 e5 the main opening is the Ruy Lopez, in which most of the body of work after e4 e5 falls into


I fail to see what this has to do with your previous posts.

Anyway, the Petroff's traditional main lines (with Nxe5 d6 Nf3 Nxe4 d4 d5 etc etc) are pretty symmetrical. Symmetry has a tendency to lead to very solid but also very drawish lines. On top level, this line has become a very successful drawing weapon for Black.

Now, to me, "solid" means "less risky, but also putting less pressure on the opponent" (if a move is just less risky without any disadvantages, you wouldn't describe it as "more solid", but rather as "better"). In chess you need to take risks to improve your winning chances.

Which is why 5.Nc3 has been so popular in the last decade or so, and why it's scoring better (in terms of number of wins) than the traditional main lines -- precisely because it is less solid and less symmetrical -- more chances of losing, but also more chances of winning!

The rest of your vague comments and mentioning of the Ruy just make it harder to take your seriously.

ChristopherCXF

Yea, you're right. Do you guys want to play a tournament about this line?