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Philidor Def. Hanham. What did the author mean by this?

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TakeTakeOops

White to move. Author Bauer, Christian in his book The Philidor Files - Detailed Coverage of a Dynamic Opening commented the following regarding this (main) position:

As for white, he can determine the pawn structure by either pushing d4-d5 or playing dxe5, the latter only making sense if Nf3 -> Nh5 -> Nf5 can follow.

What did he mean by that?

1. The push d4-d5, how does it define the pawn structure strategically? Why would one do this?

2. The more intriguing question, why should said maneuver follow on dxe5? How are the related?

yetanotheraoc

"determine the pawn structure" => create a fixed center by releasing the tension

In general releasing the tension is a strategical mistake by white, bringing black closer to equality. White only does this if there is a concrete followup available.

"Why would one do (d4-d5)?" => (a) to play on the queenside with pawn advances or (b) to play against a hole on d5 after (b1) ...c6xd5 or (b2) d5xc6 if ...b7xc6 is not available. (Very rarely in b1 will white retake with the e4-pawn, these positions are known from the Sicilian and are generally easier for black than defending the tension in the Philidor.) Releasing the tension with d4-d5 closes the position AND it creates an opposite wings pawn game, so if white is not ahead in this game strategically, white should not do it.

"why should (Nf3-h4-f5) follow on dxe5?" => much more complicated to answer. Releasing the tension with d4xe5 opens the position, AND it worsens white's pawn structure compared to black's (trade good wPd4 vs less-good bPd6, frees bBe7), so unless white has a concrete tactical or attacking followup, white should not do it. The GM has given the briefest possible explanation: "Nf3-h4-f5". The usual white sequence is like Qd1-e2, h2-h3 (necessary against a possible ...Nd7xe5 and ...Bc8-g4), Rf1-d1 (latent pin on the d-file), black usually plays ...Qd8-c7 (away from the kingside and momentarily leaving bBe7 unguarded, also losing contact with the h4 square). Now in some positions white is ready: d4xe5 ...d6xe5 (if ...Nd7xe5 then Bc4-b3/a2 and white has an edge in central pawns) Nf3-h4 threatening Nh4-f5 and black's whole kingside will be under pressure. Black can't keep the knight out with ...g7-g6 (too weakening) and somewhat awkwardly needs to move the bNd7 (hopefully not also away from the kingside) in order to play ...Bc8xf5, which in any case gives white the bishop pair. Winning the bishop pair would be a sufficient justification for the "mistake" d4xe5.

So black needs to know what they are doing to not fall into this Nf3-h4-f5 pressure, and theory suggests specific countermeasures against Qd1-e2. Most GMs just play Rf1-e1 instead of Qd1-e2, and once Rf1-e1 happens then d4xe5 almost never leads anywhere positive.

Example game where black did not defend correctly. Chess Machine vs Danailov, Oviedo rapid 1992 https://www.365chess.com/game.php?gid=1938013 . Kevin J. O'Connell wrote "The normal move is 13...Nc5, after which black stands very well indeed." --Inside Chess (1993.03.08), pg.29

Compadre_J

Pushing d5 seems pretty bad for white.

Usually, White doesn’t play d5 when their light square bishop is on c4.

If you play d5 with Bishop on c4, you’re making your own Bishop a dead inactive piece.

I don’t own the Book, but perhaps you’re not reading the situation correctly.

Or something is being missed.

yetanotheraoc

No one is reading incorrectly; nothing is being missed. The GM is talking about d4-d5 in general, not in that exact position. d4-d5 is usually incorrect, as I also said in my previous post, but it's not always incorrect. White sometimes does it for some specific strategical reason. Example where d4-d5 was played by a GM: Kindermann - Schmaltz, GER-ch 1997 https://www.365chess.com/game.php?gid=1245274 . White got the tiniest edge with 9.d5, then black tried too hard to be active, specifically with 16...e4? which didn't work too well.

darkunorthodox88

These positions in the hanham philidor have a certain tension and unless something concrete changes, the one to realease the tension first usually loses something valuable. IF white is too eager to release the tension with either d5 or dxe5, black gets to equalize much fully much sooner. IF black releases the tension via exd4, white will keep a nagging edge in space and black will have a backwards d-pawn.

d4-d5 releases the tension in a way that strategically benefits black. He may very still have an advantage but black will not be unhappy to see this move. he will play moves like c6, which re-introduce the tension in a way which put black in the dynamic drivers seat, like qc7, b5, nc5 etc.

dxe5 will equalize really fast unless white can get concrete counterplay. the knight idea involves the temporary hole on f5 since the bishop is blocked. One idea is to encourage black to go bxf5, and then defend the pawn, to grab a bishop pair, otherwise, the knight on f5 is annoying targeting your kingside and the d6 whole in the position. Black however, often plays bf8 in these types of position so the prophylactic g6 doesnt weaken the dark squares. What Bauer is saying is that unless there is concrete justification ,dxe5 in these positions gives black immediate equality, he will just open his open immediately and since he doesnt lack space, nothing will stop him from doing so anymore.
fantastic book btw.

darkunorthodox88

Btw, the theory on the larsen philidor is not in as much dire straits as the book portrays anymore thanks to some strong engine recommendation. It's still practically difficult to play but not outright refuted by the Yugoslav maneuver like the books theory makes it seem. message me if you would like to know more.

TakeTakeOops

Yes, I've read on (now in bed so can't quote exactly), but just a little it further in the book we see an example: the point is simply to free up the black's light squared bishop to hit f5 in case white would like plant their knight there.

Having also observed two games by GM Victor Bologan, tension part is strategically more difficult, but I carry on studying of course.

But it appears the author implied that white's initiative to take with dxe5 implies a realistic option to make that aforementioned knight maneuver. That part eludes me.

vdarkunorthodox88 since you have that book, can you help me out with this very part? Or was the author perhaps less fortunate with his wording? Its not like this knight move is an absolute must surely.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

yetanotheraoc

Bauer wrote: "or playing dxe5, the latter only making sense if Nf3 -> Nh5 -> Nf5 can follow."

TakeTakeOops wrote: "But it appears the author implied that white's initiative to take with dxe5 implies a realistic option to make that aforementioned knight maneuver. That part eludes me."

I don't think Bauer is implying what you wrote he is implying. The conditional dependency is the other way around from what you wrote. dxe5 does not imply the knight maneuver. The knight maneuver implies dxe5.

TakeTakeOops

I'll take it.

Compadre_J

If nothing is being missed, Than I am afraid you probably wasted your money.

Clearly, Bauer is a terrible Author.

Why on earth would he talk about general pawn moves in a position in which people don’t even play those moves.

He shows a concrete position.

Than starts generalizing?

No wonder the OP is confused.

—————————

Than on top of that Dark says the Larsen position isn’t in dire straits as book suggests.

What?

—————————

The upside is you can use the Book as Paper Weight. What a real shame.

TakeTakeOops

This was just the introduction. Examples will follow. I haven't read them. I've studied more today. For example it turns out that the Nf3 -> Nh5 -> Nf5 theme is quite common, in combination with Qf3 often. So that one clarifies itself along the way. Also releasing the tension or pushing the pawn must be for concrete reasons, but those conditions may not be always a as easy to see for a 1400 OTB like me. Can't blame the book. The only thing that seriously confused me was his ambiguous wordings. But that has been clarified here. It's a bit early to write off a book. So far I'm learning.

Compadre_J
TakeTakeOops wrote:

This was just the introduction. Examples will follow. I haven't read them. I've studied more today. For example it turns out that the Nf3 -> Nh5 -> Nf5 theme is quite common, in combination with Qf3 often. So that one clarifies itself along the way. Also releasing the tension or pushing the pawn must be for concrete reasons, but those conditions may not be always a as easy to see for a 1400 OTB like me. Can't blame the book. The only thing that seriously confused me was his ambiguous wordings. But that has been clarified here. It's a bit early to write off a book. So far I'm learning.

Sure, Give the Book a try.

See if it improves

darkunorthodox88
Compadre_J wrote:

If nothing is being missed, Than I am afraid you probably wasted your money.

Clearly, Bauer is a terrible Author.

Why on earth would he talk about general pawn moves in a position in which people don’t even play those moves.

He shows a concrete position.

Than starts generalizing?

No wonder the OP is confused.

—————————

Than on top of that Dark says the Larsen position isn’t in dire straits as book suggests.

What?

—————————

The upside is you can use the Book as Paper Weight. What a real shame.

opening books quickly become outdated all the time as theory evolves. In this case, a sideline in the larsen has been discovered which avoids the hopeless mainline where if white knows exactly what he is doing, is a winning position.

Bauer is a very good author his other books "play 1..b6" and "play the scandinavian" are classics.

Uhohspaghettio1

d5 is certainly a bad move. After c6 white's entire centre is starting to crumble and to top it all the knight can go to c5 targetting the pawn.

dxe5 would be better, but after dxe5 it has opened black's dark squared bishop and it's unclear if white has achieved anything.

I would play Qe2 - developing move, supports the e4 pawn, etc.

Lent_Barsen
Compadre_J wrote:

...

Why on earth would he talk about general pawn moves in a position in which people don’t even play those moves.

He shows a concrete position.

Than starts generalizing?

No wonder the OP is confused...

If it's presented in the book the way the OP presented it here then that certainly is confusing, as neither d5 nor dxe5 are good moves in the diagram position.

I appreciate what @yetanotheraoc is saying, but it's the author's responsibility to not confuse the reader between general considerations and specific moves, and if that wasn't made clear then that's bad writing and editing.

Too bad the Kindle edition is $20US. If it was $10 I'd probably buy it just to see (and to have a Philidor book of course, which I don't currently)

magipi
Lent_Barsen wrote:

If it's presented in the book the way the OP presented it here then that certainly is confusing, as neither d5 nor dxe5 are good moves in the diagram position.

I appreciate what @yetanotheraoc is saying, but it's the author's responsibility to not confuse the reader between general considerations and specific moves, and if that wasn't made clear then that's bad writing and editing.

For all we know, the next sentence in the book may be "as neither d5 nor dxe5 seem to be good, white should maintain the tension in the center".

Let's not trashtalk an author based on a single paragraph that's out of context.

TakeTakeOops

I don't want to breach copyright, so here's an excerpt only. After this, games are shown. So you have a bit more context:

Hanham main variation introduction
Credit: Christian Bauer
Lent_Barsen
TakeTakeOops wrote:

I don't want to breach copyright, so here's an excerpt only. After this, games are shown. So you have a bit more context:

Credit: Christian Bauer

Somehow didn't dawn on me is black to move in the diagram position. I mentally edited it to be the position after 5,,,Be7 with white to move!

So, that makes more sense. Discussing general considerations of how white can determine the pawn structure when it's black to move is fairly kosher. Might have been nice for Bauer to disclaim it a little better.

My bad.

TakeTakeOops
Lent_Barsen wrote:
TakeTakeOops wrote:

I don't want to breach copyright, so here's an excerpt only. After this, games are shown. So you have a bit more context:

Credit: Christian Bauer

Somehow didn't dawn on me is black to move in the diagram position. <snip>

Black is to moves 0-0. Now it's white's turn as stated and shown in my original post.

Lent_Barsen
TakeTakeOops wrote:
Lent_Barsen wrote:
TakeTakeOops wrote:

I don't want to breach copyright, so here's an excerpt only. After this, games are shown. So you have a bit more context:

Credit: Christian Bauer

Somehow didn't dawn on me is black to move in the diagram position. <snip>

Black is to moves 0-0. Now it's white's turn as stated and shown in my original post.

Ah, ok. I'm batting 1000 then aren't I?
In the book though the discussion of d5 or dxe5 precedes 6...O-O being played, so it's black's move.