Play the London vs c5
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Darthmambo
May 5, 2020
0
#1
Hi all,
I been looking at playing the london more and was wondering what to do with this move order, d4 d5, bf4 c5? I know black could play Qb6 then, is the vangardian gambit ok? If black does not play that and goes for some type of benoni, is the bishop ok on f4? what would I have to learn in those cases?
Is pushing the pawn to d5 a good option? I see some sources say play e3 instead then qb6 comes. Then some say take right away. Just looking for what is the best line and also sharpest. Thanks.
May 6, 2020
0
#2
The London move must be 3.e3. Don't be afraid of 3..Qb6. You could answer with 4.Nc3 and he can't take on b2 without loosing.
May 6, 2020
0
#3
That doesn't seem to be true, 4...Qxb2 5Nb5 Nd5 white can force a draw, otherwise it's gambit play with other white responses
May 6, 2020
0
#4
After 4..Qb2 5.Nd5 it seems to me, that it is Black who is playing a gambit :-)
May 6, 2020
0
#5
TwoMove wrote:
That doesn't seem to be true, 4...Qxb2 5Nb5 Nd5 white can force a draw, otherwise it's gambit play with other white responses
You're talking about a different position with Black having played 1...Nf6. (Kamsky-Ivanchuk etc). The above scenario there's a black pawn on d5
May 6, 2020
0
#7
For white I generally like..
1.d4 d5
2. Bf4 c5?!
3. e3 Qb6
4. Nc3! e6 {..Qxb2 5.Nd5 wins immediately for white}
5. Nb5 Na6 {an only move, really}
6. a4!
You'll solidify your center with c3 and develop in a London-esque way. You may also look to push a5 and, in some cases, take on c5. and look to plant a knight on d4.
You don't really have to worry about the dark-squared bishop too much, especially in these lines. Black can try some weird ..g5 stuff in some cases but if you're paying attention and know the (few) traps that exist within the London you'll be fine, I think.
May 6, 2020
0
#8
pfren wrote:
congher έγραψε:
For white I generally like..
1.d4 d5
2. Bf4 c5?!
3. e3 Qb6
4. Nc3! e6 {..Qxb2 5.Nd5 wins immediately for white}
5. Nb5 Na6 {an only move, really}
6. a4!
You'll solidify your center with c3 and develop in a London-esque way. You may also look to push a5 and, in some cases, take on c5. and look to plant a knight on d4.
You don't really have to worry about the dark-squared bishop too much, especially in these lines. Black can try some weird ..g5 stuff in some cases but if you're paying attention and know the (few) traps that exist within the London you'll be fine, I think.
2...c5 is actually closer to being "!" than "?!".
Why should Black hurry to play 3...Qb6, and not 3...Nc6 first?
3...Nf6 and 3...cxd4 (with a transposition to an exchange Caro Kann) are also perfectly fine.
2...c5 is also recommended by GM Shankland in one of his repertoire books. There he recommends 3...Nc6 and an early ...Bf5 to take control of c2 before playing ...Qb6.
May 6, 2020
0
#9
Huh, the more you know. I've always been hesitant to rush with ..c5 myself, but I'm no practitioner of the London as white or black. Cheers @Pfren @Sred
If I were to play 2...c5 as black against a 1800, I'd expect almost certainly 3. e3 or 3. c3.
If I were to play 2...c5 as black against a 2500, there's certainly a chance he'd instead play something like the aforementioned 3. e4 or 3. dxc5, something more interesting (while still surely completely fine for black), to try to complicate things and play for a win.
I don't think any of these approaches is anything special for white but I think it's interesting to note that strong players don't treat the London (or any position) as a system; instead, each position is its own thing with its own specific, sometimes sharp ideas to explore rather than mechanical, automatic moves
2. ...c5 is the Steinitz Countergambit according to lichess. I think it's by far the best reply to this opening. It actually has a better score for black (29% vs 27%) among good players in OTB games.
May 8, 2020
0
#12
actually I was wondering about the Kamsky-Ivanchuk game. if white traps blacks queen, does black get enough comp for it?
May 8, 2020
0
#13
I don't know if I should play d5 or e3 when black I lays nf6 and c5 (no d5). I saw a video on YouTube by Kamsky that he refers to his game with Ivancuck and he was like this is a draw and leaves it like that so it is making me wonder about playing e3 vs c5.
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