Playing against the Queen's Indian as White

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misayan07

What's the Cleve-Indian?

misayan07

Also for those of you who were confused about Nimzo-Indian variations: these are the main ones:

 

4. e3 Rubinstein (*there is a variation of the Rubinstein, called the Classical Rubinstein)

4. Qc2 Capablanca/Classical

4. f3 *there is no widely accepted name for this as far as I know

4. a3 Samisch

4. Nf3 Kasparov

and then the minor ones

4. Bg5 Leningrad

4. g3 Romanishin

4. Qb3 Spielmann

misayan07

Guys, the great debate:

Is this a part of the Queen's Indian or Nimzo Indian?

the chess.com engine classifies it as a part of the Nimzo, but some authors have put it in the Queen's Indian or even the Nimzo/Queen's hybrid

luke623

I mean if this is a well known line of the Nimzo:

then why isn't the above a Nimzo as well?

Slav2Luv

What about the RagaNimzo then...? Or the NoNimzo. Probably best for lesser players.

misayan07
Slav2Luv wrote:

What about the RagaNimzo then...? Or the NoNimzo. Probably best for lesser players.

what are those

Slav2Luv

So RagaNimzo is hybrid of Ragozin and Nimzo. And NoNimzo mean you don't play any Nimzo?

BL4D3RUNN3R

It is both. You can play NID with Nf3 or QID allowing Nc3 Bb4. It is usually covered in both type of books. I don't decide, it is a perfect hybrid.

Slav2Luv

And can you say why Bogo is not very popular at high level? 

misayan07

You can't call the Bogo-Indian weak. Players like Petrosian and Smyslov have advocated it, playing it commonly.

There is no difficulty developing the c8 bishop: you can play ...b6 and ...Bb7 in QID style.

Also there are some Nimzo variations (like the Capablanca variation 4. Qc2) where Black gives up the bishop pair without inflicting double pawns on white, and still has plenty of good counterplay. This is the same in the Bogo lines with 4. Nbd2.

luke623

Although the Bogo isn't weak, it is less "threatening" for White  as there is no risk of doubled c-pawns. However, it is extremely solid. Black develops quickly, castles kingside, and plays d6 and e5, setting up a solid center but conceding a slight space advantage to White. The resulting positions often are similar to the King's Indian Defense, but Black does not have the passive dark squared bishop on g7. In the main line, Black also banks on the fact that White's knight on d2 is misplaced and the bishop on g2 is not active.

 

misayan07

The main advantage of the Bogo-Indian over the QID is that Black has a lot of variations that he can employ. Although they don't necessarily give White a headache or problematic position, White needs to be familiar with them.

For example, in the 4. Bd2 line, Black has a lot of responses:

4... Qe7

4... Be7

4... Bxd2+

4... a5

4... c5

All these responses offer something for Black, for example, the pawn moves give him dynamic play on the queenside, especially when White plays Bxb4, the pawn will prevent the b1-knight from developing.

In the 4... Bxd2+ line, the c8-bishop gets developed on a6 and often traded off with White's good f1-bishop.

In the 4... Be7 line you will often transpose to Queen's Gambit Declined positions where White's extra tempo is useless, as the bishop is better on c1 than on d2.

 

Slav2Luv

But Petrosian and Smyslov? were world champion... So Bogo must be good.

Slav2Luv

And the hairy Greek master guy... said the Blumenfeld thing was good.

luke623

Players like Korchnoi and Andersson have championed the Bogo. And the OP's question was how to play against the Queen's Indian as White.

luke623

Who is the hairy Greek master guy?

luke623

Not even. Black can still unbalance the position and play for a win in the Exchange Slav.

2bf41-0

To answer the OP, I think nothing is really risky against the QID, and probably the most serious variation is 4.a3.

4.Nc3 will lead to some kind of Nimzo/QID hybrid which seems acceptable for black.

4. g3 is extremely solid but probably harder to win with. 

Interestingly, I didn't see that many mention 4.e3. I think those Bd3/Nbd2 lines are both sound and black's less likely to be booked up.

Sincerely,

--2.Bf41-0

joseb84

misayan07 wrote:

What's the Cleve-Indian?

A strong opening that somehow fails to deliver on its promise 😉

Slav2Luv

What is drawish at master level... can be exciting at club level.