poisoned pawn (yeah, another thread on the Najdorf)

Playing against the Najdorf as white I go 6.Bg5 because it's the most...fun. I'm not really sure how to deal with the poisoned pawn variation though.

I don't like sacrificing pawns, and I'm not sure where white's compensation is because black appears to be rock solid.

I would like some suggestion and some tip on common plans of attack. I'll be playing this at like 1600-1800 level so I don't really need to know a ton of theory, just the common ideas.

If you don't like sacrificing pawns, then 6.Bg5 is a bad choice.

Add the fact that playing book variations which end up well after move 20 (this is the norm in the 6.Bg5 Najdorf) can hardly be described as "fun", unless you are a very kinky guy.

Regarding the Poisoned Pawn, the most testing is the mainline with 9.Rb1 (9.Nb3 is effectively a forced draw, while protecting the pawn with Nb3 is absolutely harmless). You can find analyses, mostly created by engines, which go over move 50, and 99% of them end up with a draw. Replaying these variations is equally interesting to watching the lawns grow.

Personally, I don't bother playing either side of the Poisoned Pawn OTB- apparently I'm not kinky enough. I could probably play it in correspondence play, but the Ruy Marshal is equally drawn, and errr, more fun to play.

You could either accept that black gets equality after 8. Nb3 (or 8. a3!? after which Qxb2?? traps the queen)

If you want to play the MAINLINE 8. Qd2!, either Experts vs. the sicilian (9. Nb3), which is slightly outdated (all books on PP is outdated after a week, but people under master level shouldn't care).

I think PP was almost refuted by 8. Qd2 Qxb2 9. Rb1 Qa3 10. e5!, but maybe black have improved (since it was on 2007 or 2008 I think).

I know pfren will be against me, but if you don't like giving pawns away, I recommend playing a gambit. I used to hate unclear sacrifices, then I read Mayhem in the Morra, and only played the Morra gambit against the sicilian. A month after, I began to make unclear sacrifices, and now I am learning the open sicilian, in which I really recommend ¨7 ways to smash the sicilian¨ and ¨Sicilian Attacks¨ which is pretty much everything you need to know about sicilian middlegames. White has to make some unclear sacrifices in 6 Bg5 in order not to get outplayed by black. But if he does, black has alot of problems.

I know with black, I usually don't like facing Bxf6 just because of the wrecked king side pawn shield.

It's not so much the doubled pawns weakness as it is the fact that if black castles, that's where he would do it and Bxf6 deprives black of that critical g7 square. It just feels like a pebble in the shoe or thorn in the side. Irritating and annoying.

Of course, black can always play Be7 and take that weapon away from you if given the chance.

If black plays d5, your e5 can really make him feel uncomfortable with all the pressure.

@ pfren

I understand that at your level people are "expected" to know a ton of theory in these lines, and with both players having memorized engine analysis it's gonna be a boring draw for you.

But at my level my opponents are not going to be too much booked up, so I trust we'll both be out of theory by move 15 or so. I just need to be pointed in the right direction with a line that is challenging for those who are *not* prepared for it. That's why I ask this forum and not Fritz. What plan would you suggest for me after 9.Rb1 Qa3?

Thanks.

Ah, I treasure what you've always been saying to not waste too much time with opening theory at my level. In fact what I'm mainly doing now is trying to learn to play blindfold chess and generally increase my calculation abilities OTB.

9. Rb1 Qa3 you should pick your main line (10. f5 or e5) and then just break through at ANY cost (yes, even a piece). It's fine to develope and castle, but never allow black to catch up in development. Thats the PP in short version. Just keep attacking and chances should be even.

By the way, 6. Be3 is less memorizing and more about typical ideas, but still with sharp play (black castle kingside, or maybe doesn't castle at all. White castle queenside and plays f3-g4-h4 with mate to follow)

Thank you for both your helpful posts.

I have the book Experts vs the Sicilian, but they suggest 9.Nb3 and then Bxf6 and I don't really like the resulting positions. Especially because, even to answer to learningthemoves, I'm uncomfortable in giving black a dominating dsB.

I felt 9.Rb1 was better and you guys in the forum confirmed it. Which line do you suggest after that, the one with e5? just tell me your personal preference :)

I will force myself to play some gambit like you suggest, hopefully I'll understand better the value of the initiative (I believe it's one of my weak spot, I always go for long term features).

6.Be3 is what I played before switching to Bg5, but I got stuck too many times. For example in a tournament I got a position like below, and I didn't know how to proceed (especially where to put the lsB). I play the Najdorf as black and against the 6.Be3 I do the Topalov variation, and I wouldn't want to find myself on the white side of it (not saying black is better or anything, I just can't see where white is going).

As I play the Najdorf for both side, I'm happy to practice even the most complicated lines...it should improve my play even with black.

Generally I don't like Dzindzi's recommendations, but the one against the Najdorf (6.h3) is both sound, and very interesting- almost ideal for class players.

Vallejo Pons used it with great success against someone named Topalov recently (twice).

In that position I would try either a sacrifice on b5, or Bh3 with the idea of Nd5.

Probably not sound though...

My favourite would be to learn a drawn line after 10. f5, and then learn the refutations of all the other black moves. Then after my opponent plays something non-theory on move 15 I would sacrifice a piece and win the king.

(EDIT: Obviously the 10. f5 line with fewest ¨obvious¨ black moves...)

It's quite playable. GM's Areshchenko and Nabaty use it quite often, and Mickey Adams scored a nice win against Chucky with it.

Factly, more than half possible moves against the Najdorf should be a better choice than 6.Bg5 for class players.

I tried Bg5 once recently, and ended up in this variation.

We followed database moves for some 14 moves, until my opponent tried to deviate - the result was not great for him.

Possibly one of the most boring games I have ever played, it almost felt like a free win, since I did no work for it!

Sorry, but in my opinion, no decent Black player will go into this OTB without knowing the lines very well, they're some of the riskiest to play otherwise. Probably, even at 1600-1800 FIDE level. So if you want to play it and keep with it as you improve, you will have to learn all the lines. I'm guessing there are a lot of them.

My suggestion, instead of 6.Bg5, is switch to the 6.Be3, and after 6...e5 7.Nb3 Be6, play 8.h3. This is a very topical line recently which looks promising for White, and is a lot more fun for a player like me, who dislikes learning endless variations just to keep an even position. This is an opening which I imagine was great to play before decent computers, but since then promises not much for White.

What moves are these? I tried googling quickly but found nothing, and am not great with the names of these variations.

A quick search returned these lines for the variations:

- Topalov: 6...e6 7.f3 b5 8.Qd2 b4 9.Na4 Nbd7

- Topalov: 6...e6 7.f3 b5 8.g4 h6 9.Qd2 b4 10.Nce2 e5

(*source: GM Milos Pavlovic)

Honestly, I do not like the Topalov variation as Black. True, Black is very active and all that, but after playing some 25-30 moves of book variations, you always risk a very bad endgame (due to white's queenside pawn preponderance) if you don't insist playing extremely actively.

This variation is also a very good example of engines going wrong: they evaluate the position as totally equal, as the resulting endgame is usually far outside their thinking horizon.

My belief is that Black's best try against the English Attack is the ...e5 can of worms. Black has to be prepared to meet four different approaches (the positional, quiet Nf3, Nb3 followed by Qd2,f3,g4, or Nb3 with Qd2, f4, or finally the modern trend Nb3 with Qf3, h3-g4), but I think he has satisfactory counterplay against all of them. True this is a huge bulk of theory, but you must live up with that, have you picked the Najdorf as Black!

Who plays this line of Najdorf nowadays?? One must be crazy to study all this mess with the black pieces and actually never meet it at the board...Just play chess with 6. Be2 , 6. Bc4 or best of all 6. g3!

Mr. Troll, unless Black has got the right to move his opponent's pieces, he cannot really move 6.Be2, 6.Bc4 or 6.g3.

Better luck (trolling) next time.

 Oh, uncle Petros, you never get tired of making a fool of yourself. Scroll back and read the first post. He said he didn't like the poisoned pawn and the moves above are what you need to play to avoid the poisoned pawn. Gosh, I guess it is easier to talk without reading/thinking.  You are funny though. Only I hope your wife is keeping an eye on the flock. Mprrrrt, bikan ta gidia sto madri.

You should not post when you are drunk. Which means, don't post at all.

Read your previous post again (I hope you can read, after all), and decide if you are stupid, or drunk. I believe you are both.

  Failed! If you wanna be funny, you gotta try a little bit harder. opa-opa

Please don't repat all the time one couple of Greek words you were taught by your Albanian lover at Mykonos. It is not smart, really- quite the opposite.