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Ponziani Opening: Jaenisch Counterattack

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JustPlaying4321
 Which is the better variation of the Ponziani? Is white's position good enough in the first, or to possibly avoid it, is the bishop variation better?
JustPlaying4321

Any advice would be appreciated

ponz111

In your first variation you have current theory incorrect.

However this line is one of the most complicated Ponziani Opening variations ever.  There is no need to avoid the variation if you know current theory. 

You will find few players with Black playing this very complicated variation. If they do play it, you will just have to be aware of current theory.

ponz111

In the 2nd variation the move 5. Bd3 is not correct as it gives Black easy equality.  You have to go with 5. d5

JustPlaying4321

Well that move 5. Bd3 is really the big difference for me, I prefer the d5 variation better, so if I understood right, I should play it because few will know the complicated theory. Thanks for the help

ponz111

You are very welcome!

Pikay

In the first variation, why 6.dxc6? Why not 6.Be3 instead? It certainly looks far better from white's perspective.

Also in the first variation, why 11...O-O? White could continue with 12.a5 Bc5 13.b4 and the dark bishop is lost (which would in time lead to the murder of black's intrepid knight too). Shouldn't black have continued with 11... a6 (or a5) instead? So that if 12.a5 Ba7

In second variation, why 8.O-O? Why not 8.Bxe4 dxe4 9.Qxd8 Kxd8 10.O-O. It looks better to me because white is castled short side and black is unable to castle with his pawns undeveloped and left with the task of protecting his e pawn.

ponz111
Pikay wrote:

In the first variation, why 6.dxc6? Why not 6.Be3 instead? It certainly looks far better from white's perspective.

Also in the first variation, why 11...O-O? White could continue with 12.a5 Bc5 13.b4 and the dark bishop is lost (which would in time lead to the murder of black's intrepid knight too). Shouldn't black have continued with 11... a6 (or a5) instead? So that if 12.a5 Ba7

In second variation, why 8.O-O? Why not 8.Bxe4 dxe4 9.Qxd8 Kxd8 10.O-O. It looks better to me because white is castled short side and black is unable to castle with his pawns undeveloped and left with the task of protecting his e pawn.

Thank you for your questions. Believe me I have answers for all your questions.  I cannot answer your questions about the first variations as the answers are way too complicated to answer here.

ponz111

To answer your question about 8. 0-0  The line you gave of 8. Bxe4 dxe4

9. Qxd8  Kxd8 10. 0-0 is reasonable but it is not quite as good as 8. 0-0

The reasons are two

1. it gives Black the two Bishops [quite important in a line like this]

2. White's pawn on e5 is slightly more vulnerable than Black's pawn on e4.

Pikay

Thats understandable indeed. White's pawn is disconnected and in the enemy territory ... but so is black's. The main question is, which side can target the lonely pawn first.

Anyhow. Leaving the details aside, is it possible for black to save the dark knight in variation 1 after white continues with 12.a5 ?

ponz111

in variation 1  there is a mistake made even before your 11th move variation.  [as I said this is the most complicated line in the Ponziani by far and for that matter one of the most complicated chess opening lines I have ever seen]

It took me many days working with a chess engine to figure it out.

Some months ago I gave an exhibition-- on chess.com it was a simul by me but both sides using chess engines [Centaur Chess] including several games vs masters. I took the Black side of this variation and scored something like 7 wins and 3 draws and no loses. [if I remember correctly]

note chess.com allowed use of computers as this was stated beforehand and unrated.

battleroyale789

blah blah blah

Srimurugan108

Powerful move 

firefly1021

What is the best thing for white to to do in this position?