After reviewing Lokander's analysis, I am confident that I don't like playing the Fraser with either color.
I was a bit surprised that on the "losing line" 3...d5 4.Bb5 dxe4 5.Nxe5, he advocates 5...Qd5 instead of 5...Qg5, but did not bother to find out what he doesn't like after that. It's interesting to notice that Chinese GM Lu Shanglei keeps on playing the 4.Bb5 line, even against top opposition, and I find it hard to assume he does not know the "refutation".
hey! Someone else who uses the same database!
Yeah but it's not very big apparently. I thought it had everything before but no. Theory is beyond this database.
In my co-authored book [play the Ponziani] there is a whole chapter devoted to explaining why 3. c3 d5 4. Bb5? Loses. It took me several months to find and show all the relevant lines.
In my co-authored book [play the Ponziani] there is a whole chapter devoted to explaining why 3. c3 d5 4. Bb5? Loses. It took me several months to find and show all the relevant lines.
Not this one, though:
Things are not that clear after 13.Qc6! N. I do not know any game where it has been played so far, so I may claim it's my novelty, although I'm sure someone else has also thought of that.
I never bothered to analyse it properly, but it might well hold, and the position is quite double-edged.
In the main continuation (13...Qe2) Black ends a piece up for a pawn, but he soon loses the a-pawn, since his kingside is still at the initial squares, and then white has four connected passed pawns on the queenside- not trivial to deal with them, despite Komodo's -0.53 evaluation. I suspect that if I leave the engine to go several moves down, he may well conclude white is not worse at all.
13...e3+ is probably promising more- a rook ending with equal pawns, where Black is better placed.
So why is Qd5 inferior to Qg5 again? Despite it being played more often and by stronger players.
So why is Qd5 inferior to Qg5 again? Despite it being played more often and by stronger players.
The Ponziani has been misanalyzed for over a hundred years.
Just because a strong player plays a certain variation--that does not mean he knows what he is doing. Probably, he does not have my co-authored book where a whole chapter is devoted to proving 4. Bb5 is a bad move and Qg5 is the only correct response.
You take too much for granted when you think a strong player [2600 +] or even a supergrandmaster cannot misplay the Ponziani.
Thanks to IM pfren for adding his analysis to the Qg5 line! In my next life when I write a sequel to "Play the Ponziani" his analysis and my extension will be added to the book and the particular chapter.
So, in answer to your exact question--the answer is to read chaper 8 of my co-authored book--pages 207 to 224. Way too complicated to explain here...
Qd5 is a good move regardless. Maybe it's been wrongly analyzed in the past and it's continuing to be wrongly analyzed. There's no way Qd5 is a bad move.
It seems if white is willing, and black plays fairly well established theory, then the position becomes a complete mess.
Is this a fair impression? Are there simple ways for black? I was under the impression 3...d5 was the way to go for me. But if 4.Bb5 is actually a try, then it doesn't seem so simple anymore.
Chess is never simple!
It has been a quite interesting reading from page 1 to page 19(It took me ages as i was checking all games). I've been teaching my daughter new lines and I will include the Ponziani to see how well she does. Thank you to everyone for all the comments related to the opening.
It has been a quite interesting reading from page 1 to page 19(It took me ages as i was checking all games). I've been teaching my daughter new lines and I will include the Ponziani to see how well she does. Thank you to everyone for all the comments related to the opening.
Ponziani is an ultra-tactical, very fast paced opening. Gives white a lot of surprise attacks and quick slashes and dashes, but you must know at least 3 most popular lines (I'd suggest 3...Nf6 3...d5 and 3...d6 to be studied). If you (white) don't know at least some basic theory, it is easy to get hurt in Ponziani because of some piece development issues (specially for novices). I would suggest that you teach her the more "mainstream" openings first before you move to this one. Ponziani should be used as a surprise weapon to take down an unknown opponent. Don't use it as a regular opening or it will start getting frustrating gradually.
I don't think the Ponziani is as good as the Ruy, or the Italian. As Black, I prefer the line 3...Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5 Nd5, where Black achieves a good and solid position, with plenty of chances to outplay the opponent positionally. Oh, and does not require much work- understanding the generic opening principles more or less suffices to play the resulting positions properly.
I don't think the Ponziani is as good as the Ruy, or the Italian. As Black, I prefer the line 3...Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5 Nd5, where Black achieves a good and solid position, with plenty of chances to outplay the opponent positionally. Oh, and does not require much work- understanding the generic opening principles more or less suffices to play the resulting positions properly.
Thanks.
It's a good practical weapon though. It's hardly ever played at top level but it has been used successfully and so far there is no refutation. I used to think the Fraser was, but it's more complicated than I even imagined.
There is no position that is "easy" out of the opening for black. Or white. It's equal in most lines but what e4 e5 opening isn't equal?
The Ponziani is a great weapon against those that do not study. Against players that do study it is a waste of an opportunity as White.
Like grandmasters. Grandmasters don't study chess at all. Here is a game Carlsen (GM) versus Harikrishna (GM) in the Tata Steel tournament of 2013. Carlsen played ponziani and never lost his grip over the game at any moment. I have posted the game moves earlier. Now I am posting its youtube video with commentary from another chess master (who probably doesn't study chess, too).
lolurspammed
If Black plays with no errors at all, he is not worse.
Which position is harder to play--Black or White--depends on your knowledge of the latest theory.