Ponziani opening traps

Indeed.

When somebody wins with Ponziani, the win has nothing to do with the opening.

When somebody loses with Ponziani, they lost because of the bad opening.

When somebody wins with King's Indian, Sicilian or Ruy Lopez, they win because of superior opening.

When they lose with King's Indian, Sicilian or Ruy Lopez, the loss had nothing to do with the opening.

This was a bullet game.  My opponent played 4... d5.  I am pretty sure this was the first time I encountered this response.  i played 5. Qb3 but later checked "Play the Ponziani" and 5. Qb3 is not mentioned.  Any thoughts?

My opponent did play 5... Nxe4.  So his mistake was later.  I suppose 6...  exd was correct for black to get an advantage.

White's advantage after 4. d5 is miniscule.  This is a litte disappointing.  Black can play almost any intuitive 4th move and be fine.

White does not play 4. d5 in that line.

i meant 4... d5

is Nxc6 not the right move, what would it be?

Qb6 is not annoying, since white can simply protect Bb5 with Qe2 (and no Qa4 because of Qxf2 and Bg4 mating...)

With Qe2, white is attacking Ne4, and threatens discovering with Nc6. Black is lost at this point.

Moreover, white can also reply (on Qb6) Nd4+. Black is a pawn down, attacked and has king exposed. That is too much and it is resignable.

6...d6, though a "logical" move, is a blunder, Ng6 being the move with a level game.

Isn't white hanging his knight with Qe2?

OK I was wrong. I didn't see the check with Qxe4. It's actually black who is hanging a knight and the rook if he tries Nxc6??

Many thanks for this small, but very helpful analysis!

I'm amazed and pleased this thread is still going which i only just discovered and hope to use in blitz or as a "second string".

I find the Ponz opening as tricky and under-rated by most black players. which seem to be ideal reasons for playing it as white.

Unfortunately it is refuted by 1.....c5 or 1......d5 so i also have to find answers to those moves!

Well it's not 'refuted' by 1...c5 or 1...d5 as they are just different openings, but yes of course you need replies for those when playing 1.e4.

Everyone would play 1...e5 if he knew that the opponent is opting for the Ponziani.

Why Pfren? Is it a totally refuted opening? Is 3.c3 totally lost for white?

If everyone knew what you would play after 1. ... e5 then the preparation would be much easier.

It is always easier to prepare for one specific opening rather than for several.

The popularity of openings aren't based on total refutations. Obviously if black gets a small edge, that's much more than the usual openings, and would make it extremely popular for black.

The Pfren's point is probably that it is much simpler to play as black against Ponziani than mainstreams Ruy Lopez, Italian, Scotch...

Precisely. Black has several ways to equality, and a few of them are easy to play & understand... which is not the case with say, the Ruy. I prefer as Black 3...Nf6 4.d4 exd4 (I am not a fan of the stupid gambit 4...Nxe4 5.d5 Bc5- both sides have to play computer moves to reach a roughly equal position which is probaly a tad easier to play for a win as White) 5.e5 Nd5, which is sound, solid, and sufficiently unbalanced to give Black good winning chances. Another plus is that it can also be used against the Goring gambit, via a different move order (3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nf6 etc).

Thanks pfren.

We finally have the answer to the best that black can do against the Ponziani which gives a "sound, solid and sufficiently unbalanced" variation. Hardly a refutation is it?

It just proves my point that different openings suit different people and we just want to get into a reasonable game where we can understand what is going on without being annihilated and with some chance of catching our opponent out.

My advantage is that i am never going to play a grandmaster so am not worried about what is theoretically the best. Theory has a habit of changing and old lines are often resurrected anyway. The fact that the Ponziani is under-rated by black is one of its main strengths as they spend all their time worrying about the other openings!

The traps posted by Ponz111 and others in this thread is just what i and many others need so thanks very much!

Not really a trap but my opponent (white) here shows how not to play the Ponziani!